Any advice for someone who doesn't know one end of horse from another. How expensive is this likely to be?

[Spero]

Grateful for any advice, just starting on my research here for next year.

I am not remotely interested in horses, but my daughter is. Her only dream is to have a pony. We live within half a mile of a riding centre/stables so I was wondering if it is feasible to think about getting her a pony which could live at the riding centre and she goes round a few times a week to do whatever it is you do with these animals.

Once she is in secondary school in 2016 I expect to free up about £500 per monthin child care costs.

So if I can take the hit on buying a pony (I assume a few thousand or depends on what you want?) I assume if there is space, he or she could live at the riding centre if I pay for it.

do you think £500 a month is feasible for livery, saddles, whatever else? Tack seems eye wateringly expensive from the little I know.

i have heard of people sharing or loaning out a pony - would this be a good idea in case the reality of a pony doesn't quite meet my daughter's dream? I think she is quite realistic has she has been having lessons for two years and been on pony camps etc so she knows the score.

Play nicely horsey people. The poor OP is only talking about buying a pony for her DD - not a tiger

FWIW It is entirely possible for non horsey parents to help out and learn to keep a pony with their children - however, I think loaning or working livery can be a good idea, particularly as the type of pony a young pre teen my want can change very quickly at that age as they grow in confidence and also size. And it isn't necessary - or even advisable to stable it at all. Ponies do very well out at grass and some even prefer it eyes up filthy TB who just wont come in

Spero, my only advice would be proceed slowly and find a reliable and knowledgeable advisor , it would be painful to end up with a pony that is no longer wanted if your DD gives up in a year or twos time - particularly if you are the one mucking it out!

Thanks Bastard for your insider tips! I hope this isn't like the Magic Circle and you not are going to get into trouble for revealing these secrets to the muggles.

I am taking careful notes. Don't confuse horse with dog. Check. Don't buy horse from charming traveller folk in layby. Check.

Tummy - she was keen before she went to this school and there do seem to be quite a lot of children there indifferent to the charms of the horse so i am not sure it's peer pressure.

But I can see it's not going to be a quick process to check out suitable horses/stables so if we start thinking about it seriously next year, then if she goes off the boil once at new secondary school then hopefully I won't find myself the proud owner of a pony no one wants.

Cross post elastamum!

See, I predicted your wise advice, thus proving I have indeed drunk deeply at the font of horse wisdom and am now pretty sure I can distinguish front end from back end.

Spero - I have read most of this thread but I don't think I've seen what your daughter actually wants to achieve on her pony. Is she keen to do dressage, show jumping, eventing, showing, hunting, mounted games or just to go on hacks? Depending on her competitive spirit there will be different sorts of yards you could place your pony with although, depending on location, they may be a distance away, for her chosen discipline, which could make life more difficult.

Luckily we're both really horsey and DD has had her own ponies since she's been 3 but although we're very experienced we still have two of her ponies on livery as, especially in the darker months it is much easier for others to look after them and ride them regularly whilst we work and DD has after school (sports) commitments.

DD is now 12 and to be honest does very little of the pony work herself with the ones we have at home and although she is experienced for her age we don't feel she'd be up to spotting problems etc quickly enough to take full responsibility - that may just be her though.. She does do some chores and she likes grooming, picking feet out, tacking up, turning out etc but most of the time she doesn't really get stuck in and although she could spot lameness etc doesn't really have adult sensibilities yet.

I think given your situation I'd really push on with the lessons first and maybe see if there is a Pony Club centre near you where she could ride with other similar children and do competitions etc.

OP, there are lots of advantages/ disadvantages to owning, loaning and sharing horses. I just wanted to add a few comments.

1. your idea if keeping a horse at a riding centre sound really sensible, as there is often lots of help available, and DD may be able to join some of the group lessons/ helpers hacks etc for free/ very reduced cost.

2. get someone who knows your daughter's riding to help you choose a pony. DH an I bought a horse with the advice of our school instructor and we got the right sort - very different to what we had viewed ourselves, but definitely the right horse.

3. get good insurance! It costs a fair amount, but is so worth it if anything goes wrong (and it often does).

If you want another cost breakdown, we are SE, and when we kept our horse on part livery at a riding centre we paid as follows:-

Livery (incl. feed, hay, straw bedding, muck-out, rug changes, turn-out/bring-in, evening checks, use of schooletc) = £425/mth

Farrier - standard shoeing = £80/6 weeks

Insurance - £55/ mth (horse had previous injury and covere two riders to high level, so higher than most.

Wormer - £13ish/12 weeks

Lessons - £20-30/ 45 mins (private)

On top of these regular costs, there were of course always bits of tack, rugs, odd first aid things, competition expenses, supplements etc. to pay, which often add-up. At our yard, there was also an expectation that you would pay them to clip your horse through the winter, which was an extra £20 per time.

We are now on DIY and although our costs have reduced, I am at the yard for about an hour in the morning (turn-out, feed, muck-out, prep hay net, water etc), then about 30 minutes each evening, bring in, beddin. Down, feeding, rugging etc), Whig really takes it's toll.

At the moment she seems to just want to go on hacks and be involved in the general looking after a pony - she talks with great enthusiasm about the different personalities of the ponies she has ridden and has definite 'favourites' - I think part of it must be that she wants to have a bond with her 'own' horse but she does understand that this might be difficult unless she spends a lot of time with it.

From what I have seen of her riding I don't think she (at this stage anyway) would want to consider competitions.

Equimum, there is just no way I could ever commit to that kind of time every day - sometimes if I am travelling long distances I have to get up at 5am and I am not back until 9pm! So I will have to chuck money at the problem, but glad to see others think its feasible.

Oh and what I don't think anyone has mentioned yet - horses do not have to be for life.

If all too much of a ball ache or too expensive or the child gets fed up then you can just sell it to another keen child and move on.

Yet another area where horses far outstrip dogs

yes, possibly the most helpful and profound message I will take from this thread is that horses and dogs are different.

And here was me, thinking horses were just a slightly larger type of dog. Who would maybe need a longer lead. And a bigger poo bag.

'And a bigger poo bag'

You don't have to pick up after your horse much to the annoyance of the townies who have moved to the country

There isn't really much you can do when you are on a horse - not really safe to get off in the middle of the road and scoop it up

Well there you go, every day's a school day.

i am now not sure if AuntieDee is being jocular or if she really thinks I would dismount and attempt to shovel poo in a bin bag.

Given that some posters seem to think my general level of intelligence and common sense is around the level of a mollusc, this may be serious advice.

In other news; bears do shit in the woods.

You can sometimes go back with a shovel and a bucket if you think it's near someone's house but generally by the time you get there, someone's had it for the roses.

Cue lecture on how you have to let it rot down first ...

You can sometimes go back with a shovel and a bucket if you think it's near someone's house

But to cheer up some posters, on mistaking my staffy for a Shetland pony this morning - easily done I am sure you will agree - I rushed excitedly into the spare room to give her a cuddle, knocked over the bedside table and caught my knickers on the door handle. So probably for the best if I continue to avoid stables.

i am now not sure if AuntieDee is being jocular or if she really thinks I would dismount and attempt to shovel poo in a bin bag.

I'm being serious. As horse riders, some people really do expect us to do that...

I don't often post here as currently I am not a horse owner or even rider due to injury.
One of the disadvantages of owning your own pony relatively young is that you can slow your development as a rider by riding the same pony all the time. If you do own your own there still advantages to having lessons on others.
The only other thing I wanted to add is never ever under estimate the unpredictability of horses in every aspect of their existence. I'm not just talking about causing human injury, but their ability to get hurt in the safest of environments.

Whilst I know you don't want to a fancy horse this story sums up the attitude you need to have. A friend breeds seriously fancy race horses the other year she breed a youngster that qualified for the high flier sales. Unfortunately the filly went lame with pus in her foot 24 hours before the sale and could not be sold that day. SHe was sold three weeks later for 500K instead of the 2million she was expected to make. My friend just shrugged and said 'that's horses for you'.

We keep ponies on full grass livery and DCs only ride at weekend. Just under £200pm per pony plus extra for feed, shoes, training etc.

Could you find a yard, even one a bit less local where your DD would have a chance to learn some stable management? I used to work at a yard that would have children for the day from 8, so there may be somewhere that's local enough for her to go at least once a fortnight/once a month to gain some skills before you commit to buying.

As a small adult, I used to to a lot of exercising of children's ponies and the one bit of advice I would absolutely give you, is not to overhorse your daughter. Buy the pony she needs at 12 (or whatever age you choose to buy at) not the one you think she will want in a few years time. This is probably the quickest way to kill a child's confidence in a lot of cases. Also, this is one reason why loaning a first pony can be a good idea.

At 12, a child can do most of a pony's day to day care, if they're a nice pony and a reasonable size for the child (and the child is competent), however, there are lots of things I don't think they should be responsible for:

-Turning out, catching in. IMO, this should always be done with adult supervision, especially if there are other horses in the field.
-Feeding hard feed. Unfortunately, mistakes when feeding can make a pony very ill, or even be fatal, so it's not something that I would make a young teenager responsible for, just in case.
-Making any kind of decision about veterinary care, or attempting first aid. I'd want someone to always be on site and willing to help with any injury or illness. Realistically, you're probably going to be the one who makes the decisions about when to call the vet, what to vaccinate for, when to have teeth done etc, obviously with some advice from someone knowledgeable where possible.
-Any decisions about shoeing, again, you'd probably have to be the one to make decisions about this.
-Checking the fit of tack. Most ponies will change shape at various stages of their lives, and it's important someone is keeping an eye on this. Hopefully your instructor would point out anything glaringly wrong. This goes double for choosing what tack to use- she can't buy a grackle just because it looks cool, or put on exercise bandages without knowing how to do this properly, or decide she suddenly wants to ride bitless.
-Leading or riding on roads alone. Unfortunately, this is unavoidable at many yards, but I wouldn't want her doing it alone just in case something went wrong. In general, hopefully hacking alone can be avoided.
-Anything like clipping or pulling the mane without being shown how and being sure the pony is safe (even if nothing bad happens, it will lead to the poor pony looking awful!).

There are probably other things that I can't think of right now, but basically you would need an adult on site at all times, who, crucially, would be willing to take change of the pony in the event of an emergency.

You're also probably going to be expected to be the one to make decisions about certain things- on a basic level, things like shoeing and vaccination, but also more serious veterinary care decisions. You might also be expected to decide what to feed, and maybe whether it's time to buy a new saddle or rug. Some yard owners and vets will be willing to help and advise more than others, though.

I do think working livery could be a good solution for you, if you manage to get an agreement that works for you. However, working livery brings a lot of its own problems, and sometimes you need someone on your side with more horsey experience to see where these problems might be. Also, it won't suit every pony, so you would need a back up plan in the event of things not working out.

Good Luck, whatever you decide. If it helps, my parents made a decision very early on that they would never buy me a pony. Riding is still one of my "things" and I have always found ways to ride if I've wanted to.

Its absolutely clear from this thread that I will have to give very careful consideration to a yard/stable/riding school where someone experienced is willing to accept my cash to make these decisions and to carry out majority of care for the horse.

It is impossible for me to become interested in or knowledgeable about horses in order to make these kind of decisions about their welfare and vets etc. I haven't got the time and I am not interested.

So until my daughter is old enough to take on that kind of responsibility, I will have to pay someone else to do it and trust that they do a good job - in the same way I trust my daughter's school to educate her and her doctor to treat her.

I have been a bit taken aback by how many posters seem to think that it is utterly irresponsible of me to go down this route unless I am prepared to jack in my job and become a full time stable hand - but equally I have been reassured by the number of other posters who have taken (what I think) is a more realistic view that this is certainly doable but its a question of either hard work yourself or chucking money at the problem.

so I hope that whoever I approach is going to be keen to discuss options with me and take my money - rather than dismiss me as some clueless townie who doesn't understand that a horse is not a dog.

(Disclaimer: I do know the difference)

of course you are not irresponsible spero, do not worry.
A good livery yard will be able to help, there are lots of mums like you.

Spero - even I - who have ridden on and off for a long time - am at a yard where there are more experienced people, so that I can call on them if the need arises.

TBH in my experience you may be better looking for a smaller yard, where there business is looking after other peoples horses, and that they can give lessons (in stable management, horsemanship/ learning to ride) - but are not a riding school. We were at a yard where there is a riding school...TBH they were expensive and the service was not great, or that professional...we were just a cog.

Now at a small competition yard,. great facilities, but they are interested in keeping us happy as clients. I will admit for my son, it is not as social, which is a shame and it was a huge decision, but honestly he will be a better rider for it , and we will go out to pony club, or box to hack with friends. It is also far more manageable for us as a family.

It was not so much 'worry' but irritation at those who kept repeating back at me 10 is too young which was never the plan. I was particularly irked to be accused of not caring for my daughter's safety because I didn't accept that I had to be down the stables twice a day myself.

I think as a parent it is my duty to ensure that anyone I entrust with my daughter's safety is up to the job, not to be permanently attached to her side all day every day.

But some very useful posts here! I will steal them and start my own blog The Woman Who Thought Her Dog was a Pony to help all the other mothers in my position as it seems there are few of us.

'the woman who thought her dog was a pony' OK as long as you do not try to throw it a bone!

You will be able to find someone to take your daughter and pony on, but you're right it will take time to find the right person. And (as you've learnt from the thread) be prepared for some responses along the way! (That's the horse world in general though, so many different and often conflicting approaches/philosophies etc.).

So I'd concentrate on finding a reputable person first and let them be involved in finding the pony, whether that's a loan or purchase for some kind of working livery. One "pro" for a loan, is that the owner will often have the final say on all things health related (and often pay for it!) and even the kind of daily management, feed/grazing/shoeing etc. It's these aspects where you may find an "arms length" approach might become an issue as you won't have the depth of knowledge that will help in decision making.

You could get away with not getting involved practically, but the more knowledge you have around care and management, can only help your dd, although a good yard will assist you with this and support you in any decision making.