The broom cupboard 2 - just for when we get briefly stranded without a staffroom

[TheHoneyBadger]

I'll pop a link in the old one so you know where to find safe haven. I have tried to clear out some space by getting rid of the ohp and vcr trolley and gin is hidden behind the sick sand bucket.

We're all pawns really with very little control and a lot of frustration.

Apologies again for the frustration getting the better of me.

How much does primary history look at source material and evaluating it etc? I imagine it varies so much from school to school?

@noblegiraffe

Do English teachers teach spelling at secondary? With spelling tests like at primary?

Spelling tests aren't effective really. For most, they function as short-term memory quizzes that are then dumped as soon as they're finished with. That's often where there is such a disconnect between spelling scores on weekly and writing.

We teach spelling with a root in phonics and through identifying patterns related to grapheme use, language structure, morphology and etymology. It's a specifically taught lesson, separate from other aspects of English but with the expectation that the knowledge gained is applied in all subjects.

I'm trying to encourage staff to teach spelling across the curriculum. It's going down like a cup of cold sick.
We teach fully mixed ability until year 9 EXCEPT in maths who set all classes and English who are allowed a top set. We also have small (but growing) intervention groups for literacy and numeracy. They're taken out of their 2nd MFL for that.
I can teach mixed ability but I'm really good with the Bobs.

@DanglingMod

How much does primary history look at source material and evaluating it etc? I imagine it varies so much from school to school?

Loads - it's a core skill in KS2 especially. By Y6, my kids are expected to be able to critically evaluate source materials, including the identification of bias, and draw evidence-supported conclusions as to where the "truth" lies on a particular topic or event.

It varies. We use source material a LOT - starting off at a basic level in terms of primary sources / secondary sources and then looking at e.g. reliability / viewpoint / bias in Y5 /6 (and obviously more picture / object sources in younger years and more text sources in the older years, just because the reading skills needed can be quite advanced), but it will definitely vary.

Yeah, spelling tests are pretty useless.

We try to teach through etymology etc too.

That sounds challenging, both.

I observed a lot of year 7 history lessons for a specific reason and the challenge and expectation was high, too.

I'm trying to encourage staff to teach spelling across the curriculum

I've been doing work in recent years on literacy in maths but we don't do anything about spelling because they aren't marked on it...

I teach mixed ability, being a single form primary there's no choice, but I also don't have groups or "tables" within the lessons. I'm a fan of self-directed learning including challenge by choice, flexible seating and lots of active live feedback / ad hoc mini-teaches.

I've been doing work in recent years on literacy in maths but we don't do anything about spelling because they aren't marked on it...
Even for us, it's only 32/160 - and that includes punctuation and grammar. I'm trying to give strategies that also help with decoding new words but the curriculum is so crammed across the board that it's hard to get it in.

@Iamnotthe1

I teach mixed ability, being a single form primary there's no choice, but I also don't have groups or "tables" within the lessons. I'm a fan of self-directed learning including challenge by choice, flexible seating and lots of active live feedback / ad hoc mini-teaches.

One of the things I REALLY miss in the Covid era is the ability to flex seating and grouping in and during every lesson in response to children's needs and progress in that lesson.

See ours come to us not knowing what a source is and, for example, for ours the terms primary and secondary sources are out and you only use the term source for what we once would have called a primary source. We also seem to avoid the term 'bias'.

We teach a distinction between a source and an interpretation and that sources are often a narrow point of view (eg if I interviewed everyone in my class about what lockdown one was like for future historians their accounts would differ greatly according to housing, economic situation, parental mental health etc etc) given from one perspective whereas an interpretation is made later by a historian who has access to lots of sources and must endeavour not to be narrow (eg. I read all of those accounts later and write about how lockdown was experienced very differently by different people and their experience was related to economic, social etc factors).

They also have no concept of eg. what years are meant by the term the 19th century and haven't heard of chronology, don't know how to distinguish causes and effects etc etc. BUT I love that. They come to us with a passion and interest in history but not having had that crushed by too much order and rules and assessment or sats drilling and I get to foster that enthusiasm and shape the skills needed to translate that into success.

I'm personally a fan of topic teaching at primary - I remember loads about the battle of hastings and that period of history because it was a massive topic in which we did art (we made figures and details for a collaborative bayeaux tapestry that hung in the hall for literally decades after), we did drama, we did creative writing, we learnt about the technology of weapon making in the middle ages etc. I personally would rather primary fostered enthusiasm and interest and curiosity in subjects and really solid skills in numeracy and literacy.

Oh I love a spelling test !!

cant
I have whiteboards situation around the room in various locations. They've been blank all year because the kids have to be in fixed rows staring at the front so I can't get to them for my little "You, you, you and erm... you, just come here and look at this." groups.

I did spelling tests when I was teaching Science. Key terms tests - I'd read the definition and they'd need to write the word and they'd get one mark for getting the right word and a second mark if they spelt it correctly. The kids actually loved it in year 7 and many would be reminding me miss you're meant to be testing us on our key terms if I forgot

In terms of spelling I tend to model that even as an adult some words are tricky sticking points and you have to write them to see if they look right and it's best to check if you're not sure. We can have a good discussion about how many c's are in necessary or n's in unnecessary and everyone feels reassured that it's not just them and spelling can be tricky and it's best to check if you're writing something important.

I think the topic / subject thing is quite a nuanced one, and one i haven't made particularly clear.

We do very much try to make certain there are links between things that genuinely do go together - e.g. History with DT and English for several weeks, or Science with English, ICT and Art in another part of the year. However, a child will always know whether what they are doing at that moment is a History or English lesson, and where a subject doesn't fit in with that topic we teach it in a standalone way for that part of the term. When we plan, we think about the subject-specific skills as well as the topic-specific knowledge that we want the children to be developing - so for example use of sources and chronology in History, fair tests and the creation of testable hypotheses in Science, use of shading and cross-hatching in Art - and it is those that would make the lessons similar across phases.

Interesting debate! I'm sorry to have missed it!

We certainly begin to look at historical sources and their reliability in LKS2 and I know my colleagues in UKS2 develop it further.

We also pull apart text to identify key features for English - organisational devices, figurative language etc as well the inevitable SPAG, even in LKS2. We do use a lot of shorter, simpler books in Y3 as stimuli for writing, but our guided reading lessons focus on longer class texts, taking a chapter at a time. On the whole the children really enjoy them and engage well. We have a high number of EAL learners in school (~40%) and I find that shared reading like this helps their English language development.

Just found a tic on my leg!
Be careful in the woods everyone.
Im usually so careful too i cant really see how i got it. Could be today or yesterday.
Worst thing is i thought it was a dot so picked it off rather than tweezer.
As the room was dark as dp asleep already. Only when i looked at it with my phone i realised what it was.

Now im worried the kids have one too but they are asleep so cant check.

Not only dont i want lyme disease but the fevers and everything would have to check it's not covid too.

Late to the party here. We have a fully unisex dress code throughout our school. No shorts though which causes controversy at times!

Pre covid we would retest our Y7s early on with their same Y6 SATs paper and compare what they had been able to do in May with September. We have over 70 feeder schools so can’t really do any meaningful transition despite trying. Our primary colleagues say they focus on the arithmetic paper because if the students get high/full marks on that then they only need so much of the reasoning to exceed expectations? And although they do some maths after sats that is when they start to wind down and do the fun end of primary stuff.

They don’t want to end up focusing like this in Y6 but are under pressure for results/PRP etc... when we show them the topic list they agree they’ve covered it, but when we look in more detail at our lessons they also agree we take it deeper and further than they do at primary. When we’ve been to see some of them we found yes they are covering the content but very much focused on the procedural side of it in Y6 and the challenge was often bigger numbers or a reasoning question that wasn’t really followed up.

We’re trying to work with out five biggest feeders and other schools in our hub so I’m going to give some maths training to their teachers (eg this is what they need to end up doing at end of KS3 and this is where the topic leads so these are the important things to emphasise) and they are going to teach us how better to manage differing abilities and use concrete/pictorial representations to support. I mean that was the plan but then covid!!!!

Oh no @HSHorror! We’ve just been able to start going out with our puppy and I’m a bit paranoid about him getting a tick! Friends daughter had one last summer and ended up having very strong ABs four times a day for 3 weeks or something. She was totally fine though.

MrsHP
Our primary colleagues say they focus on the arithmetic paper because if the students get high/full marks on that then they only need so much of the reasoning to exceed expectations?

Even if a child gets full marks on the arithmetic paper (40/40 which isn't that easy in the time limit for most kids), they'd still need a good score on thr reasoning papers to attain Greater Depth. Obviously grade boundaries change every year but, generally speaking, if you're getting less than 98 out of the 110 marks available for Maths as a subject, you cannot be sure of Greater Depth.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

noble That's how I feel. I'm good with sets, they make good progress and I can meet most children's needs well. Mixed ability isn't working for the long tail or the top. It was brought in because of covid. It is going in September (thankfully).

With time to plan, implement and cooperative colleagues I can see the benefits to mixed ability, particularly sets 1-3.

I’ve taught mixed ability for the first time this year. Test score range from 100% to 7%

The middle are fine, but the top aren’t being stretched. Some of the bottom are floundering badly.

Middle are fine. We could do with a top and bottom set but mix the vast majority.

A top and bottom set with a mixed middle would be my ideal too. Raises the expectation of the middle but ensures the bottom end get the curriculum they need.

My concern is those who just miss out on top set. Movement would have to be fluid and the scheme of work designed to allow for it.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

A top and bottom set with a mixed middle would be my ideal too. Raises the expectation of the middle but ensures the bottom end get the curriculum they need.

My concern is those who just miss out on top set. Movement would have to be fluid and the scheme of work designed to allow for it.

We did this one year. 1 top, 1 bottom and 3 middle sets. What we found was that the top set flew, but it disadvantaged those at the very top of the middle sets, because it became so difficult for them to get into the top set (parental complaints abounded - no-one would give up their top set space and the middle sets complained of unfairness. The bottom set felt marginalised.). We set them after 1 term, so it wouldn't have been exactly correct. The next year, we went back to full setting.