The broom cupboard 2 - just for when we get briefly stranded without a staffroom

[TheHoneyBadger]

I'll pop a link in the old one so you know where to find safe haven. I have tried to clear out some space by getting rid of the ohp and vcr trolley and gin is hidden behind the sick sand bucket.

Chloe Herc ❤

In the same way, I think the way you all manage the sheer volume of what you have to deal with across that many classes and that many students is highly impressive. I can focus all of my energy on under 35 kids whereas you have to think about hundreds - I don't know how you do it.

We debated using some extracts of Kite Runner as comparison text but it didn't happen.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

Does anyone work in a through school? I'd love to know if they were better. Locally through schools are all private so I guess they'd be naturally smaller classes which may help.

The logistics of secondary overwhelm the year 7 students. Moving rooms, changing subjects daily, new lunch processes etc leads to a lot of cognitive overload in those first few weeks. Our current year 7 have been primary schooled to some extent by staying in the same room all day with the same group of people. Year 8 will be a bit of a shock.

My DH does but yes, is a private school. Strangely, he often prefers the Year 7s who come in from different primary schools than their ‘home grown’ as some pupils there can get complacent, knowing they have automatic entry to theYear 7 in senior school or at least, used to. Two years ago, the head of the seniors for the first time, did not accept 3 Year 6 pupils into the Year 7 cohort. Was dramatic stuff at the time!

Herc
It's an interesting point about the last year. The transition lead at our local secondary has said that he thinks this last cohort has been the best transition they've ever had and it's because they've had their own build, stayed in the same classes, etc. They've said they're looking into whether they can manage the same structure for all years moving forward. (Though I'm not sure that'll work for the poor teachers!)

Oh and just to say, nothing to do with the junior school staff, just the pupils/families themselves getting a little complacent (no SATs there either for example) rather than relish the wonderful curriculum that was on offer.

But it is a shame if students who don't study A level lit are basically exposed to crap choices for GCSE and safe choices at KS3 and little decent adult literature unless by choice.

@TheHoneyBadger

I think as much as secondary could benefiting from seeing what is achieved at primary, primary could benefit from coming and experiencing the sheer logistical nightmare of secondary and how many kids we teach and how little time with them we have and what shared groups are like when you might only see a class once a fortnight etc.

If you are a eg. history or science teacher you have so much curriculum to cover and so many students that you just don't have time or space or capacity to be drilling and reminding them of basic skills let alone worrying about their handwriting and you have to hope that some of what they did in primary 'stuck' and is properly embedded.

Again I'm not criticising teachers but the way the curriculum has been driven.

I completely get that. I also completely get why Y7s think English and Maths are 'boring' or 'easy' at secondary in comparison with the excitement of Science in proper labs, DT in proper workshops, Art in studios and specialists teaching Music and Drama and PE...

Ours too Herc. A TA and I were speculating the other day that next year is going to be like having two lots of year 7 at once because the current lot have been so sheltered.

Some feel they're getting very big for their boots with the sheltering as well. I teach 4 year 7 groups (2 only once a fortnight) and don't see the same issues as I find them relatively easy to engage (teaching history is a blessing!) but can see that they've definitely become coddled and are in for a culture shock.

I taught Touching the Void, Anita and me, and Julius Caesar at GCSE until I was banned and made to pick from the two dept choices.
Next year, SLT are insisting that we all teach the same text. I bloody hate An Inspector calls

@Iamnotthe1

Herc It's an interesting point about the last year. The transition lead at our local secondary has said that he thinks this last cohort has been the best transition they've ever had and it's because they've had their own build, stayed in the same classes, etc. They've said they're looking into whether they can manage the same structure for all years moving forward. (Though I'm not sure that'll work for the poor teachers!)

I know of at least one secondary (not locally) with a very deprived catchment that always runs Y7 in a much more 'primary' way, with most lessons taught a single classroom within a specialised block, and with additional curriculum time on 'core' subjects.

They get really excellent progress scores [though low absolute results].

Oh yes they're definitely a bit too big for their boots. Being 'out there' in the real world next year should knock a couple of them down a peg or two.

The transition had worked well for some students but being set for maths would (imo) really benefit the top and bottom end. The middle kids are fine but I know we've not stretched the top and supported the bottom as well as we normally would. Not blaming the teachers, we were learning on the job and I'm convinced mixed ability can only be done well with proper training and time.

@Iamnotthe1

Chloe Herc ❤

In the same way, I think the way you all manage the sheer volume of what you have to deal with across that many classes and that many students is highly impressive. I can focus all of my energy on under 35 kids whereas you have to think about hundreds - I don't know how you do it.

Ditto!

I’ve been learning a language over the various lockdowns and it’s very interesting to notice what I remember and what I forget, what cues I take from prior experience and knowledge and the fact that the more information from other sources comes my way the more difficult I find it to recall the hard won language skills - I am distracted and they are crowded out. Children are continually exposed to new experiences and information in a way we can’t possibly recall or re-experience without also revisiting childhood. They have little in the way of other experience or knowledge to prompt memory. Their priorities - conscious or otherwise - are not fully aligned with the expectations of their educators. It’s amazing to me that they remember as much as they do.

I'm convinced mixed ability can only be done well with proper training and time.

Agree. The school I teach in went from Maths being set in KS2 to mixed ability some years ago. It required a complete re-writing of all curriculum materials from the ground up, and I would say that we are only now doing it really well (though our results shot up from immediately after the transition to mixed ability and continue to improve year on year).

I think, understandably, primary would think well just drill them and drag them up in the first couple of weeks which you could do with one teacher, one class and a familiar environment but doesn't fit the logistics of a secondary school bearing in mind kids are tackling timetables, room changes, remembering their books and equipment, some getting buses for the first time etc etc and that subject departments are entirely separate and teachers can teach 150 kids of different ages and abilities in one day.

In reality primary and secondary are entirely different environments and we do have to be kind to our year 7s and a little tolerant because it's potentially actually pretty traumatic to have to integrate into the world of a state secondary. The amount they have to grow in terms of maturity, social resilience, organisation etc in a very short period of time whilst having to cope with being jostled in corridors and bus queues by potentially 6ft teenagers with moustaches etc is huge.

When you really think about it is pretty traumatic hence parents worrying so much about the transition. Some of the conditions in secondary schools would be utterly intolerable for adults.

And also the fact that really only maths is essentially same subject at secondary? English is most definitely a different animal.

I'm convinced mixed ability can only be done well with proper training and time.

I can't fathom it working at all where you have a long tail at the bottom end. There has to be a basic starting point of understanding.

I know cant is a big fan and I'd love to observe, but from my point of view, I've honed my craft teaching a narrower ability grouping and I'm good at it. Switching to mixed ability would be switching to something I'm not good at, to the detriment of my classes, and it would need a very good reason which I don't think is there.

@borntobequiet

I’ve been learning a language over the various lockdowns and it’s very interesting to notice what I remember and what I forget, what cues I take from prior experience and knowledge and the fact that the more information from other sources comes my way the more difficult I find it to recall the hard won language skills - I am distracted and they are crowded out. Children are continually exposed to new experiences and information in a way we can’t possibly recall or re-experience without also revisiting childhood. They have little in the way of other experience or knowledge to prompt memory. Their priorities - conscious or otherwise - are not fully aligned with the expectations of their educators. It’s amazing to me that they remember as much as they do.

Yes! They have information thrown at them with nothing to really hang it onto in some ways imo. As adults we have lots of prior learning to connect new concepts to, we have structures in our minds and ways of organising knowledge etc and yet we find it really hard to learn new things like languages. (Though languages are a good example of what I was saying about developmental stages and the right time for the right things because I know from ds that he picked up arabic so fast and easily as a toddler/pre schooler just from his childminder and being around it but then forgot and when we lived there again he found arabic lessons so hard and painful.)

It is indeed amazing they remember anything. I find you really have to jog their memory with keywords, features etc and my year 9s will finally (most) go eg. oh yeah we did do about this in year 7, wasn't it something to do with having smalller ships? It's easier if you taught them because you can jog those memories with the way you taught it, the discussions you always with the year 7 and the hooks you use etc.

They're bombarded really and subjects are almost competing for their attention, for their homework effort and mental space.

@DanglingMod

And also the fact that really only maths is essentially same subject at secondary? English is most definitely a different animal.

I would put it the other way round, really - most subjects are the same at secondary (though taught in different classrooms by different teachers and with more specialist equipment), some are completely new, and English feels like it ought to be the same but is mostly different because it is much less about creative writing / language and much more about analysis of texts.

Do English teachers teach spelling at secondary? With spelling tests like at primary?

I hope we've been discussing not arguing. I know there was a small misunderstanding but that's inevitable and I hope we've all been talking long enough to give the benefit of the doubt and try not to take things personally.

We're all pawns really with very little control and a lot of frustration.

noble That's how I feel. I'm good with sets, they make good progress and I can meet most children's needs well. Mixed ability isn't working for the long tail or the top. It was brought in because of covid. It is going in September (thankfully).

With time to plan, implement and cooperative colleagues I can see the benefits to mixed ability, particularly sets 1-3.

Though I would caveat that and say that I work in a school where we teach 'subjects' - ie History / Geography / Art / DT, though there are often cross-curricular links - rather than through 'themes / topics'. I think there is therefore more continuity between our history lessons and those in secondary than there would be from a more topic / theme-based approach, if that makes sense?

We're all pawns really with very little control and a lot of frustration.

This

With time to plan, implement and cooperative colleagues I can see the benefits to mixed ability, particularly sets 1-3.

It's definitely not something you can do overnight! For us, it's been a whole change to thinking process, planning approach, lesson and resource design - and luckily, we could do it without the extra pressures of Covid!