TES Community

[Scumble]

Where the dickens has it gone? Is it gone gone? Has it been renamed and I just can't find it?

[quote staymotivated]**@Weald56* there was a belief that the new forum was going to be the promised land for all the TES Community refugees. I, for one, believed so, and was praising Emily for setting it up, until I learnt that the honourable @Florianus* was booted out and he didn't have a clue why. And remember, TES announced they were not reinstating the Community forum, after the other one had been established and idiots, like I was at the time, were singing its praises and it had garnered hundreds and hundreds of old Tessers in a matter of days.

Once I learned of Florianus's fate, I knew there really was trouble in paradise. Yes, other were moaning about being kicked out, and I thought they were baddies, posting stuff like how much they loved Bojo etc. but now I know you can be booted out on a whim, I'm not impressed. It will probably be me, next, if I ever write something.

Those that are on the site and defend it, like you, and sooty and coffeekid, can't say a bad thing about Florianus because there isn't anything bad to say about him other than him being way too skilled at his repartee, and I figure, they are just as shocked to hear he was booted out as I was, but haven't the balls to speak up about it.

When I first came to TES years ago, I remember being ribbed by Florianus and his mates and I was getting really upset, Florianus nobly backed down. He's not a baddie, and knows when to stop and wouldn't intentionally hurt another by going for the jugular unlike other TESSERs.

Florianus is very popular and I am sure a lot of the old Tessers who are fond of him, are wondering where he is now, unaware of his current fate. I reckon if I did a post mentioning him, all the Emily fans lurking here, would out me and I would be kicked out instantly.

It's like the plot of some Cold War Thriller.....[/quote]
Excellent post. What is your TES name? I would wager a guess at Install. She was always a very fair minded contributor. Mind you I thought the same about Monica and she has been on here less than supportive that stalwarts like Florian and Kandahar have been excluded.

@Kandahar I think it's also very poor manners to quote from a forum from which you've been excluded.

@farqueue21 I won't be mentioning my old TES name. I wasn't around a lot, but was aware of who was who and what was going on.

The removal of Florianus I am sure has created tensions and inner turmoils. It's like when you are in a school and a favourite and popular teacher is suspended or sacked and everyone wants to know why and who will be next. Not a good feeling at all.

[quote ilovesooty]@Kandahar I think it's also very poor manners to quote from a forum from which you've been excluded.[/quote]
It's bad manners to write about posters who have no ability to respond.

Evening, all, and welcome to any new Mumsnetters. We just wanted to pop by with a reminder of our guidelines as we know there are a few new members here, who might not have had time to read them yet.

Although we don't expressly rule it out in the guidelines, generally it's considered not really cricket to drag disagreements etc from thread to thread, or site to site, and especially not to out other Mumsnet posters in their guises from other sites. We're deleting a few posts now, but we'd really appreciate it if we could get this thread back on track now.

If you have any questions about the site or our guidelines, please do just drop us a line via the report button. We're always happy to help if we can.

Thanks

Thank you Hebe.

"Although we don't expressly rule it out in the guidelines, generally it's considered not really cricket to drag disagreements etc from thread to thread, or site to site,
[...]
If you have any questions about the site or our guidelines, please do just drop us a line via the report button. We're always happy to help if we can."

I like to see pro-active moderation stamping down on board-wars, @HebeMumsnet, but if you invite correspondence from ex-TESsers you will barely have a moment's peace from all the special pleading.
Enjoy your evening.

Hi DrLinus

Thanks, we do like to pop into threads before things become a real issue and we're always happy to help new folk settle in. We're aware there's a lot on Mumsnet to get your head round if you've turned up new to it all so we'd always rather people just asked if they were unsure, otherwise it can feel like you're getting deletions for no good reason, and we'd rather invest a bit of time in that now than try and put things right once things have gone properly pear-shaped.

As always, if we get vexatious reports, we deal with that differently, but that's not been the case so far here, so we don't think there's any cause for concern there.

Thank you Hebe.

[quote DrLinus]@manchestermyself

"How do you know "it is still stored for the moment"? (the data) do you have some insider knowledge? Because I have had sight of a reply to a GDPR request, which states that once the decision was taken to close the community all the data was erased."
Without sight of this GDPR & its response I cannot speak to it or around it.[/quote]
Look, an ex-TES contributor made an application under GDPR regulations on the 19th Jan (the day after closure was confirmed) to get access to their data. The reply was posted on the other place. I don't feel confident copying and pasting from one forum to another, especially when it is not in my name. However, I'm happy to repeat (again) the most controversial line: "....once the decision was taken to close the community all the data was erased."

You almost immediately came back at me to say "I appreciate some people are disappointed but legally all that data belongs to TES and its holding company and they have no obligation to make it publicly available IT IS STILL STORED AT THE MOMENT." You then added: "...whether it will be stored AFTER THE LEGALLY REQUISITE PERIOD or mined in any way is up to them."

I have since asked you for clarification of both points, because if you think about it they are inter-connected. If I decide to seek legal assistance on this matter, the fact the data 'is still stored at the moment' (according to you) is pretty important. However, if - and according to the information I have there is no 'if' about it, the data has been erased, then your comment "....after the legal requisite period...." comes into play - because they will have erased the data 'illegally' - too quickly. So which is correct?

Since then, you went quiet and tonight I feel you are being deliberately evasive in saying: "without sight of this GDPR & its response I cannot speak to it or around it..." and yet the other day, you seemed to be Mr KnowItAll.

Are you one of the people who got booted off the new site because you made statements/comments and then failed to back them up with specific evidence? I only ask, because that seems to be what you are doing on here.

Are you even a real Doctor?

@HebeMumsnet

Hi DrLinus

Thanks, we do like to pop into threads before things become a real issue and we're always happy to help new folk settle in. We're aware there's a lot on Mumsnet to get your head round if you've turned up new to it all so we'd always rather people just asked if they were unsure, otherwise it can feel like you're getting deletions for no good reason, and we'd rather invest a bit of time in that now than try and put things right once things have gone properly pear-shaped.

As always, if we get vexatious reports, we deal with that differently, but that's not been the case so far here, so we don't think there's any cause for concern there.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Vexation was something of a vocation for a certain clique of TES members, now directed at TES itself:

uk.trustpilot.com/review/tes.com

Think Eye of Sauron.

Apparently, it is more risky and expensive to insure websites that publish the website users' own content because liabilities might arise under the laws of libel, copyright, data protection, indecency, obscenity, privacy, defamation, to name but a few.

After a legal a claim has been settled, usually out of court, the insurance costs spiral. Setting up a website is no walk in the park.

Methinks the voluntary contributions on a certain site are probably going to have to be higher soon. Too good of a job was done in getting hundreds of new users, but too bad of a job was done in thinking about the possible legal consequences and responsibilities. And also the question of the sustainability of having one sole, main moderator who makes all the decisions.

This is why I understand why NAB needs to charge for her website and pay for impartial moderation.

@manchestermyself

"I don't feel confident copying and pasting from one forum to another, especially when it is not in my name."
Nor will I discuss a request I have not seen nor its response.
After the short time I was on TES I realise it had members who I would not trust to make a cup of tea never mind an SAR.

Do not attempt legal action.
You will only lose money chasing useless data, whatever its ontological status.

Mmmmm ....

Has 'Unicycling Hooligan Theory' gone forever?

@CircusKevin

Mmmmm ....

Has 'Unicycling Hooligan Theory' gone forever?

Nice to see you, Kevin.

[quote ilovesooty]@Kandahar I think it's also very poor manners to quote from a forum from which you've been excluded.[/quote]
I have said exactly the same to Mr Nomad, probably one of the few decent posters on that new forum. It will be interesting to see if Mr Lanokia turns up, and of course Mr Lexus and Mr Artboy, all great, valued men.

This forum is a little confusing. The above was a reply to this...

37staymotivated

@farqueue21 I won't be mentioning my old TES name. I wasn't around a lot, but was aware of who was who and what was going on.

The removal of Florianus I am sure has created tensions and inner turmoils. It's like when you are in a school and a favourite and popular teacher is suspended or sacked and everyone wants to know why and who will be next. Not a good feeling at all.

@CircusKevin

Mmmmm ....

Has 'Unicycling Hooligan Theory' gone forever?

Good evening Kevin.

How delightfully refreshing to see you.

@manchestermyself

What ‘data’ are you expecting to retrieve from TES? Unless you have deleted your TES account (ie the details you gave to log in to the website) that data is still retained and presumably unaffected by the removal of the forums.

I doubt that any contributions you, or anyone else, made to the forums over the years is ‘data’ within the terms of GDPR. It is not personal information that is identifiably linked to an individual. Presumably if any of the information was sufficiently important you would have kept it in some easily accessible form anyway.

[quote SadScientist]@manchestermyself

What ‘data’ are you expecting to retrieve from TES? Unless you have deleted your TES account (ie the details you gave to log in to the website) that data is still retained and presumably unaffected by the removal of the forums.

I doubt that any contributions you, or anyone else, made to the forums over the years is ‘data’ within the terms of GDPR. It is not personal information that is identifiably linked to an individual. Presumably if any of the information was sufficiently important you would have kept it in some easily accessible form anyway.[/quote]
Interesting, you seem to have some relevant knowledge, good.

The data I want to have access to are specific threads that I'd bookmarked to view, when I had the chance, but now probably never will. There were discussions about how UK education has changed over the last twenty years or so (i.e. during my time), tips for teachers in early years, an area I have recently become involved with. Tips for earning money outside of teaching and also a thread on alternative employment for people looking for a new career outside of teaching. Finally, in a few years, I might have looked at the retirement advice too!

But the specifics are not the point, you say: "Presumably if any of the information was sufficiently important you would have kept it in some easily accessible form anyway." Well, if I'd had any inkling of what was about to happen, then of course I would have done that. If we'd been given a week or two warning that the threads were to close, I could have found and saved everything I wanted. But we weren't even given the chance. This is what is vexing me and @DrLinus hasn't helped, with his input that promised much, but has now just infuriated me even further.

[quote DrLinus]@Neededabreak

"I'm not sure why you ask given that you have written off the new venture, but they are used in internal communications platforms for some businesses/organisations."
Simple curiosity abut a thing you said.
It is not like I am asking you to justify yourself, or anything like that.[/quote]
Oh ok well as I said I was referring to the sort of networks that are used within organisations or sometimes to link individuals who use the organisations services.

@manchestermyself

I can understand your vexation, but if TES say they have deleted all the forum content it seems to be within their T&C.

www.tes.com/terms-conditions/terms-and-conditions

“Termination -
We may terminate your access to the Website and/or use of the Services, with or without notice and without liability to you or any third party. We may also remove and discard any User-Uploaded Content on our Websites for any reason and at any time, including, but not limited to, believing that you have breached our General Terms.”

It was a shabby way to treat long term customers and subscribers, giving no notice. I’m highly sceptical of their fudging statements about compliance issues, personally.
Maybe at least some of that body of knowledge and experience can be replicated in time.

[quote DrLinus]@manchestermyself

"I don't feel confident copying and pasting from one forum to another, especially when it is not in my name."
Nor will I discuss a request I have not seen nor its response.
After the short time I was on TES I realise it had members who I would not trust to make a cup of tea never mind an SAR.

Do not attempt legal action.
You will only lose money chasing useless data, whatever its ontological status.[/quote]
What has bird watching got to do with it?

[quote SadScientist]@manchestermyself

I can understand your vexation, but if TES say they have deleted all the forum content it seems to be within their T&C.

www.tes.com/terms-conditions/terms-and-conditions

“Termination -
We may terminate your access to the Website and/or use of the Services, with or without notice and without liability to you or any third party. We may also remove and discard any User-Uploaded Content on our Websites for any reason and at any time, including, but not limited to, believing that you have breached our General Terms.”

It was a shabby way to treat long term customers and subscribers, giving no notice. I’m highly sceptical of their fudging statements about compliance issues, personally.
Maybe at least some of that body of knowledge and experience can be replicated in time.[/quote]
Fair comment and I very much agree with your last line. Thanks.

P.S. If I have learnt one thing, it is to read the terms & conditions, I mean, who ever usually does that!?

Manchestermyself said:

"P.S. If I have learnt one thing, it is to read the terms & conditions, I mean, who ever usually does that!?"

Indeed and yet I got a telling off from the delightful "ladies" on the new site for saying exactly the same thing.

Be excellent!