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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Gav calls for Silent Corridors - School Behaviour Squad Assembled

202 replies

noblegiraffe · 28/02/2020 19:10

Gavin Williamson made a speech today praising strict schools that don’t let kids piss about in lessons (you’d think this’d be fairly standard, but, y’know, Dix) and have silent corridors.

A new £10 million behaviour task force is being assembled led by Tom Bennett and will work to tackle this on a national level. Not sure how this will have any more impact than his behaviour report that appeared to make fuck-all difference though.

What would be lovely is if he could say ‘centralised detentions are a non-negotiable to be implemented immediately’. But I suspect not.

NEU are not happy, obvs.

schoolsweek.co.uk/williamson-calls-for-silent-corridors-and-banned-mobiles-to-be-the-norm/

OP posts:
iamnotokaywiththis · 29/02/2020 11:23

But noble you never talk about SEN funding and provison on here. You are all about the strict behaviour policies. You can forgive people for assuming you think this all that matters.

noblegiraffe · 29/02/2020 11:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

iamnotokaywiththis · 29/02/2020 11:40

Now now language noble You might have made one or two posts, I haven't read all of them. I have noticed you do start many threads on strict behaviour policies though.

Grasspigeons · 29/02/2020 11:42

@noblegiraffe - this is a genuine question. Do you feel all the children that would benefit from a PRU place specifically (not SEN specislist provision) are able to access one or is your school doing everything possible to keep the children on roll because there is no where else for the children to go or the PRU in question is unsuitable? Like you're the end of the line for them.

Hercwasonaroll · 29/02/2020 11:45

@iamnotokaywiththis Every teacher on here is always talking about lack of funding for SEN/AP. It's a national scandal.

Noble starts many threads on education generally. Lots of these involve behaviour because the two are intrinsically linked.

Hercwasonaroll · 29/02/2020 11:49

@Grasspigeons Our school does everything it can to keep them on roll. This is because there are no alternative places. Quite often the behaviour of these students impacts on the achievement of other students in the school. Sadly even with reasonable adjustments there are some students who can't cope in mainstream or who don't have the support to follow a system with consequences. These students stay in mainstream because there is nowhere else.

Munxx · 29/02/2020 11:52

Dear God. This is staffroom not AIBU and those who have not had to juggle a classroom full of 30 children each with individual needs, be they NT or SEN really should give their head a wobble. Most teachers try their best day in and day out to help each of their pupils, many go home at night upset and angry that they haven't been able to meet needs. And every single bloody one has tried to fight ideas imposed by on high. And before anybody starts I also know what it is like to support children with a variety of SEN in a professional and personal capacity, and when you teach that can often be in the classroom too. Show me a teacher that hasn't fought for a child who is struggling, trying to ensure every damn day that they are supported, helped and shown the way. I'm sorry that teachers can't do all of this to everyone's satisfaction.

And I quite agree that a lot of organisational skills must be taught at home- and instead of attacking teachers here save your vitriol for those you assume are letting them down in RL. Perhaps volunteer at the school and see what it's like there.

Noble giraffe you don't deserve all the shit coming your way.

Grasspigeons · 29/02/2020 11:52

Hercwasonaroll - that why wonderdc if tackling this first would help most, with the ripple effect i guess.

monkeypigsysandy · 29/02/2020 11:54

@noblegiraffe and @Munxx you are both absolutely spot on

iamnotokaywiththis · 29/02/2020 12:00

No one is attacking teachers Munxx

It's called a discussion.

And I disagree with you about organisation skills. Of course they can be taught at home, but a child's ability to learn them, stick to them, and replicate them in school varies massively.

Munxx · 29/02/2020 12:03

Then I repeat, perhaps volunteer to help lead some sessions to help these pupils? Get in touch with your local support groups and see if they can get into the school to facilitate. And I must disagree, you have been bashing teachers continually. You obviously have serious issues with the schools your children are at so I suggest you direct your anger there.

wrinkledimplelover · 29/02/2020 12:06

Re the idea that every kid has trauma, and every adult had it as a kid too therefore it's kind of irrelevant, that misses the point.

Trauma in this sense is not seen as "big T Ttauma" like rape or heavy domestic violence. It's "little t trauma". This is better viewed as unhealthy stress.

If we look at what healthy levels of stress are for kids (NOT what are normal levels these days) then kids today do have a lot more stress in their lives than before. A lot more than the average level we did. The ACES list events in children's lives that add significantly more stress (as well as "big T events"). These are noted because they are SHOWN to have a negative impact on the child, and later the physical and mental health of the adult.

Think of this scenario. You're having relationship difficulties with your spouse. Your mother has just been diagnosed with dementia. You're not sure if you can afford even a small holiday in the summer and your colleagues are all going somewhere. You see Facebook photos from friends having a great time at another friend's birthday party, that you hadn't known about. Not one of these is a big trauma, but all add to your stress levels. Now add in that your work expects you to do a one training course at the end of which are exams. If you pass, you'll get a great promotion. If you don't, you'll never progress in your career. You turn up in the first day if the course and you've forgotten your pen. That's a mark against you already. You finish the first session and have a joke in the corridor on the way to the next one and you get another mark against you for that. The next session begins..and you're in trouble again for forgetting your pen.

Would you honestly be feeling relaxed and ready to learn in that scenario?

Some adults in exactly that situation would never forget their pen again. Others would forget, others would be without one until payday. Some would figure something out and be fine. Some who always had their equipment, who never got into trouble would be running scared of being in trouble. Others would just wonder what the point us.

Clear and fair expectations for children to meet are not unreasonable. And things like posture are important to low levels of mental health (ever sen someone really happy walking with their feet trailing in the ground and a grumpy face? It's not common for a reason).

But if they're punitively enforced, they add further to the stress. They unfairly impact those who have stressful lives outside school.

If we look at the private schools who hothouse children, they almost always have a strong sport programme. This actually helps reduce stress as intensive physical activity changes biochemistry. Now, it's not that sport alone is the answer, or that teachers need to pander to the emotional needs of kids. If, however, children are being treated like they are all the same, that they should be able to behave, because others are, then the system is actively being set up to advantage those who already have certain emotional advantages (safe, secure, stable loving family who live harmoniously, no financial worries, secure friendship groups, being accepted for who they are etc - OR the odd few who can "work their way out of poverty", as if it's hard work that reduces poverty..). It's not about kids who live in fancy houses being ok, it's about those whose emotional health is undermined having it further compromised by a school system that treats them as bad for reasons that are often stem from reasons without their immediate control.

Feenie · 29/02/2020 12:06

No one is attacking teachers Munxx

You are. On a staffroom thread, ffs.

Piggywaspushed · 29/02/2020 12:08

You haven't answered how ,without invasive prying,we are supposed to know which children have suffered trauma.

Oliversmumsarmy · 29/02/2020 12:09

My teaching Bible is 'Other People's Children' by Lisa Delpit. It explores how white middle class 'laid back' education ideology is disadvantageous to students who come from cultures where adults are much more authoritative. It's fascinating and completely changed the way I teach (I teach mainly Nigerian students). Katherine Birbalsigh (Michaela founder) talks about this as well

Am I wrong in being very uneasy about this

That what is being said is white British children don’t need a heaven handed approach but those that are from other countries and cultures need lots of rules to keep them in place.

I can only comment on dds school (not exactly inner city but definitely inner London)as Ds because of SENs didn’t really fit into secondary school.
He tried it for a few weeks but despite wanting to do well ended up with so many detentions that he just gave up.
He is a little deaf so when he has his back to you he sometimes doesn’t hear what you are saying. Something the school and teachers knew.

Computers were placed up against the walls. On 3 occasions the teacher told everyone to stop what they were doing and he didn’t hear her so kept going. He got 3 detentions off this teacher alone.

There were many other problems as well.

Dds school corridors were where children let off steam. They were as noisy and jostling as any school but once inside the classroom they were expected to try their best in lessons.
There was a low level hum of people talking but mainly because they were asking their neighbour what things meant
The school was for a specific activity so academic lessons were only for 1/2 the week.
If you wanted your child to do well in academia then this school would not be for you so children ranged from really bright to a lot like Dd who struggled

Dd did amazingly well there because I think the teachers really did have patience with them.
In class Dd would ask what would be considered as a really stupid question about something and would ask her friend what it meant but I knew it was her way of getting the information in a different way till it clicked.
If she wasn’t able to ask a question to her friend who understood how dds brain worked and only had the teacher who would have thought she wasn’t listening and with a threat of a detention she would have been left floundering.
The SEN provision was excellent and whilst Dd was in the lower set of pupils and only got a handful of GCSEs to me that was excellent as I thought she wouldn’t get any.

Choose the school which suit your children but at least have the choice to go to a school that lets your dc let off steam between lessons.

I wonder with these schools that don’t let children talk during school without supervision what happens when they are out of school.
I suppose it is too early to tell long term what the results are of not letting children self regulate and then expecting them to go to university and into the wider world where self regulation is the norm.

iamnotokaywiththis · 29/02/2020 12:11

Are you saying only teachers are welcome to comment on these threads? You dont welcome comments from the people (students, parents) you actually provide a service to?

I'm just giving a different point of view. People have told me to fuck off or made ableist comments and I'm the one attacking people? Okaaaaay

Piggywaspushed · 29/02/2020 12:16

To be fair, I haven't done this. And I have largely been ignored. Swearing, sarcasm or massive thread derailngs and lay experts seem to garner attention.

Piggywaspushed · 29/02/2020 12:17

Just so we all know, Tom Bennett has already tweeted that he is not advocating silent corridors.

Feenie · 29/02/2020 12:17

Why do you think it's called the staffroom? You're welcome to your discussion, sure, but start a thread somewhere else.

Piggywaspushed · 29/02/2020 12:20

I think that is an agenda , yes, Oliver. Makes me squirm a bit too, but I haven't read the book. It does seem a bit like the people who say all boys need different teaching methods.

Munxx · 29/02/2020 12:22

I guess we just do what we always do which is put relationships at the heart of the job and try to look out for those little differences in the pupils, try to be responsive when we notice any change and be alert for signs of distress. I admit this is easier in primary when we are with them more, in secondary when you can only see a child for one lesson a week that is challenging. I suppose just noting anything different, emailing guidance so that all coming in can be monitored and hoping that providing a stable environment that allows the child to feel comfortable sharing? I know in reality even finding that five minutes to talk to the pupil can be almost impossible. But as I say those in the profession, despite what some would say, do our best.

And opinions are welcome but it seems rather hypocritical from the poster who is blaming teachers not even trying to understand their child that they would attack without even trying to understand the pressures.....

iamnotokaywiththis · 29/02/2020 12:23

feenie I dont think you can post headline grabbing threads about silent corridors and expect parent NOT to comment.

Munxx · 29/02/2020 12:24

Sorry first paragraph was to piggy (who I assume is a fellow teacher!) and second to iamnotokay.

noblegiraffe · 29/02/2020 12:24

iamnotokay

I’m a teacher, I like posting in that capacity. I’m also the parent of a child with two different diagnoses of SEN. I don’t like posting in that capacity. I have seen first-hand the effects of cuts to SEN provision.

So when you come on here implying that I don’t care about cuts to SEN provision because you’ve read a couple of thread titles and seen what you want to see, you can, and I say this again knowing that you prissily don’t like bad language, fuck off.

OP posts:
iamnotokaywiththis · 29/02/2020 12:25

I am not blaming teachers! I haven't at any point blamed a teacher. I am blaming zero tolerance behaviour policies.