Student 'can only do' 8.30-3.30

[SpringisSpringing]

I'm fairly new to teaching so I really don't know what to do. I don't want to be responsible for failing someone.

It's just not enough time. I don't get the chance to talk to her properly.

She's okay. Not great- but if I actually had time to mentor her she might get better!

But if you can’t do the course, you can’t pass it. That needs to be considered before you apply.

I also think there is a massive difference between saying to your university tutor/school mentor-

‘help, I am in a total pickle; I had no idea that I wouldn’t be placed 90 minutes away from home, my childcare only runs for x hours and I’m a single mum with no family support. I will have to leave at 3.30, but i will do absolutely anything I have to, to get the job done. I can email or Skype, I can pick my child from childcare and come back here to plan-I will get a babysitter for x occasions that I need to be in. Is there anything else you think I should be doing that I’m not?’

and ‘I can only come in 8.30-3.30. It’s childcare’.

Having the second attitude reveals a great deal about you-as a person, I would say.

Though I hate to say it though, but if this student teacher actually is a single parent with no family support and has only one childcare option available that is only open 8-4, then teaching probably isn’t the career for them anyway. School trips, parents evenings, twilight training, evening concerts or meetings plus sick children/random inset days would all be an absolute nightmare with poor childcare and insufficient family back up.

I have obviously made the above scenario up though as we clearly don’t know anything about this student teacher.

This is definitely the biggest single change in teaching (and therefore teacher training) since I started and teachers seem in general to support this increased workload themselves!

When I was a student teacher I was viewed first and foremost as a student, with the accompanying student lifestyle. Even now, I don't necessarily expect a student with my class to do all the marking. She teaches stuff and then we share the marking.

To be honest, I get a bit narked if students stay til 5. It makes me look bad! And then they expect me to be at there at 4 for a quick chat after school. Many times I have said I will catch up with mine after school for a quick chat and have hung around waiting for them for over half an hour. I've left notes on my desk saying 'sorry, gone home now'...

When I was training, we walked out at the same time as the kids (which was a double edged sword!) and arrived a little before them (the only train saw to that). There was no suggestion that this was lazy or incompetent (I was actually considered very industrious!). And I did both primary and secondary training. There were no computers in those stone age days either. It was - honestly- a completely different job better

I agree appu

One says 'Yes i know there has always been a chance this situation could happen but i was sort of banking on it not. How can we work it out?'.
The other says 'I decide what hours suit me and everyone can drop everything for me'.

Student in the first situation will probably do alright and everyone together tries to make it work.

Student in the second situation sounds like a stroppy teenager who thinks the world is mean to them.

I think expectations are too high of students

They're really not! Or at least, not compared with the real world.

I’m confused.
Every time someone posts saying ‘bloody teachers, all those holidays and they knock off at 3.30’ there are swathes of teachers saying that they are always at work until 6pm.
Now this thread is full of people saying that it is fine to go at 3.30 and they do it all the time.

To be honest I think this shows a very poor attitude by this student. I’m quite organised and will not leave until I have everything ready for the next day. I’m usually gone by 5. When will there be the time for her to make resources etc?

I don’t think people should be making themselves martyrs but equally you have to know what is expected. Also other people with 9-5 jobs manage to arrange child care. Her lack of childcare is no one else’s problem.

Now this thread is full of people saying that it is fine to go at 3.30 and they do it all the time.

I think most people on the thread have disagreed with that.

Simon Can you reference anyone who's said it's fine to go at 3.30? Anyone who's actually a teacher, that is?

Now this thread is full of people saying that it is fine to go at 3.30 and they do it all the time.

Is it? Where?

Me... I think it's fine to go at 3.30. This is what I do every day, unless there is a meeting (once a week generally). I also do no work in evenings or weekends unless I have to.

This does not mean that I think teaching is an easy job. The stresses for me come from other factors.

Piggy when you were training teaching was a very different job, in terms of accountability, performance management, targets, data....of course training was slacker, it could afford to be.

How do you possibly get everything done piggy? There’s no way I could leave that early without working in the evening and on weekends.

I also do no work in evenings or weekends unless I have to.

But you have 20-odd years of experience to draw on. I can walk into a classroom and deliver a reasonable lesson on a lot of topics because I’ve got a bunch of textbooks, a filing cabinet of worksheets, a mental map of where various presentations are on the school network and the ability to think up a string of questions on the spot and write them on the board.
That doesn’t mean that new teachers shouldn’t expect to work in the evenings and weekends.

I know noble. I agree. That said, I have managed to stick to core hours of about 8 to 3.30 throughout all of it.

My kids let themselves in the house now and can just about be trusted by themselves! but for long periods I had to get out to either pick them up from after school club (which finished at 5) or to let them in the house before I felt they were old enough to have their own key!

When I got to my DCs after school club at 4.30 ish (because you were charged much more if you got there after 5...and the earliest you could drop them off was 8), there was not a teacher left in the school, I must say and that was not that long ago! And there were also no teachers there at 7.50 am...

purple, I am possibly superhuman

My DH is also a teacher and we have no family (and childminders are not ten a penny where I live). It involves an awful lot of juggling but it has always meant family circumstances have had to come first.

I trained as a youngster though so no DCs .. I could not have coped with that!

Once someone is a qualified teacher it is up to them how they choose to manage their workload as long as they are present for meetings etc abd the job is done well.

I have colleagues who come in 30 mins before school and 30 mins after due to ease for childcare. Nobody cares as long as the job is done. They work once kids are in bed. On meeting nights etc they have plans for that. They are doing their job. Nobody cares.

Others choose to work longer hours on site and then that means doing less work at weekends or on evenings. Again, nobody cares as long as the job is done.

I don’t think people should be making themselves martyrs but equally you have to know what is expected. Also other people with 9-5 jobs manage to arrange child care. Her lack of childcare is no one else’s problem
This ^^ (assuming it is childcare. Have we had a reason yet?)

No noble but I don't think we should judge anyone who tries to.!

there was not a teacher left in the school

That probably means they’re working at home. I think you’re definitely unusual in neither staying late at school nor taking work home.

I think we have seen on so many other threads how many are burning out in their first few years because of the high standards and expectations of others and themselves.

Unusual in the last few years in my school... it is becoming more expected. Doesn't make it right...

The weren't working from home ; I genuinely don't think they were. They were just done for the day!

Teachers are burning out because they are working till 10pm at night, not because they’re working 8:30-5, which for most of the population would represent a normal working day.

Gosh, so many messages.

This particular student needs taught how to teach. I need more time with her to do that. I'm not asking her to do more than is necessary to pass her placement and SMT agreed with that. We're hopefully working on a way forward which can help her.

I also get very worked up about this because the ones staying really late seem to create work that doesn't need to be done or extend tasks - which kind of means the rest of us are expected to produce 900 page long whistles and bells ppts to keep up...

Nearly everyone I know who stays til 6 then tells me they are working at home til 11.

Nonoblebut I don't think we should judge anyone who tries to.!
It's not about judging!
I have a much better life balance these days. I teach trainees the importance of good habits etc.

Pointing out the job of a teacher is more than 830-3 isn't judging people though. ITT is a full time course. It is absolutely right that trainees are given a chance to experience life as a teacher and that means not thinking i don't do school after 330

These are people who can measure their career so far in weeks.
They do not have extensive pedagogical knowledge.
They haven't seen fads come and go and come and go.
They are still learning the basic elements of how to teach.