Student 'can only do' 8.30-3.30

[SpringisSpringing]

I'm fairly new to teaching so I really don't know what to do. I don't want to be responsible for failing someone.

It's just not enough time. I don't get the chance to talk to her properly.

She's okay. Not great- but if I actually had time to mentor her she might get better!

I think we have seen on so many other threads how many are burning out in their first few years because of the high standards and expectations of others and themselves.

It’s not high standards, I have to mark 60 - 90 books depending on what I’ve done that day plus organise resources and plan lessons. My PPA isn’t enough time to get it all done. I’m super organised and realistic about lesson standards but there is just a seriously big volume of stuff that has to be done.

Teachers are burning out because they are working till 10pm at night, not because they’re working 8:30-5, which for most of the population would represent a normal working day.
This so much.
Nobody's going to die for doing a proper day's work.
Working a normal working day isn't what's causing people to leave, not is it excessive work. No wonder some people when they hear the odd teacher whine about how awful it is to work at 4pm.

Yes purple but I think that is precisely what has gone wrong with teaching. All that marking !!

Hey ho. Just goes to show all teachers don't think the same!

I agree a quick catch up very so often is what OP and her student need. Not every day though. That creates work for OP too.

Why are you marking 90 books a DAY?

Yes purple but I think that is precisely what has gone wrong with teaching. All that marking !!

I agree, there’s too much marking but how exactly can I not do it? It’s school policy. I can’t refuse. It isn’t an unusual school-pretty much the same everywhere.

Not a primary teacher BBCK??

agree a quick catch up very so often is what OP and her student need.

Actually, it would appear that this particular student needs more than that.

bbc primary, class of 30, one maths lesson, one English lesson per day, plus possibly a topic lesson in the afternoon.

School policy is maths and English books are marked daily. That’s a minimum of 60 books.

There are ways of organising a series of lessons whereby not every one involves written tasks that need marking. Or, if you know that there's a long written task for one subject on a certain day, then organise it that Maths, say, could be self-marked or group-tasked or whatever.

Group task still has to be evidenced (photo of a practical for example) with date, learning objective and feedback though. Peer marking still has to be marked.

Yes you can balance your marking for the day but the vast majority of primary teachers have to mark maths and English every day. Plus anything else they teach that day.

Where has anyone said that leaving at 3.30 is fine? Well is this from the first page alone.

Nobody has to be present in school out of directed time.
would not tolerate a student being failed for leaving at 3.30!
But, not staying beyond 3.30 on a normal day is not anything to do with professional standards! Honestly, what are we all doing to ourselves?

BBCK,

In every primary I have ever taught in, the expectation is that every book is marked for the next lesson in the same subject (and that it informs how the next lesson's planning is adjusted).

That means that Maths & English are marked daily (though of course self assessment and peer marking both have a part to play) - 60+ books daily. Then most days there will be a further set of books on a twice weekly or once weekly cycle - History / Geography / Topic (however that is taught); Science; Guided Reading / Comprehension;n RE. Things like spelling, quick maths tests etc are mostly self-marked by pupils in KS2; Art, Music and PE are not usually marked; MFL is marked more rarely.

It is another area in which primary / secondary are very different. Primary has a constant level of daily marking, whereas secondary marks more in 'batches' and has significant 'long' marking tasks in terms of A-level essays etc.

Group task still has to be evidenced (photo of a practical for example) with date, learning objective and feedback though. Peer marking still has to be marked.

To be fair, it doesn’t have to be. Ofsted don’t give a toss about photos of practicals or extensive feedback. What they expect to see is the school policy being followed, so it is your school that is choosing those ridiculous expectations.

No not required by Ofsted obviously but I think the point is clear from other posts that in primary, it is very much more likely that the school will have a policy on marking and what is expected in books. I have taught in 4 schools, all have had a similar policy.

I'm an experienced teacher. I am very efficient and clear demarcation between doing a good job and being a martyr who doesn't know when to stop. I have lots of resources and can deliver lessons off the top of my head if I have to, plus I set work and arrange marking so the load is spread and manageable.

I am in school 8.15-4.30 every day plus until 5/5.30 twice a week. On average I work an extra 6 or 7 hours at home per week. The time at home is all marking. The time in school is preparation, data and admin requirements and meetings.

Group task still has to be evidenced (photo of a practical for example) with date, learning objective and feedback though. Peer marking still has to be marked.

Lobby for that policy to be changed! Photo - fine, if it shows something meaningful e.g the results of an experiment, rather than children sitting around a table talking. Feedback not fine. There might be a couple of comments e.g. 'X led their group really well' or 'Y required support with this task' to guide future teaching or assessment, but meaningless for the vast majority.

Peer marking - I glance through it to inform the next lesson. If obviously off-beam, I might mark the work myself and add the peer to a supported group for the next peer marked activity. Otherwise it stays as is.

Can't Tbf I'm talking about a brief comment in both cases. But it still means sitting down with a pile of books.

Oh yes! I have a crate of them waiting for me. as I procrastinate now!

I genuinely can’t see how the job can be fitted into PPA, even as an experienced teacher in secondary with a reasonable marking policy.

But it still means sitting down with a pile of books.

Not necessarily. I get them to leave the books in a pile, open at the relevant page at the end of their table (surprising amount of time can be spent leafing through books to find the work!), and quickly scoot through them to make any necessary annotations at break/lunchtime/straight after school. Infinitely quicker than boxing them all up and lugging them home for a big session after dinner when I'm knackered and had enough.

Group task still has to be evidenced (photo of a practical for example) with date, learning objective and feedback though.

You need to change schools! Mine would not expect that; nor would Ofsted. Occasionally we take photos, but it would be a job for the TA (or maybe me, but it really doesn't take long) to print off, trim to size and the children themselves stick them in their books under the title/L.Ob.

Almost I do the same (open books etc) but I sit down with the pile on my desk at lunchtime after I waste 5 mins running to the staff room for tea - I know, I'm a slacker!

But yes policy is still a photo to evidence any practical activity so that takes time at my computer and the printer.

And yes I'm an experienced teacher and I take bare minimum home!

Anyway, not the point of this thread...

What about peer or self marking being acceptable and valid feedback, or use of the 'verbal feedback given' stamp? Isn't it about variety of feedback - both to manage workload but also as a more effective teaching tool?
We are looking at books at the moment to identify too much teacher marking and encourage more sekf and peer and verbal feedback - its good all round.

With maths, I'd say children take far more notice of the marking if they're actually involved in the process of ticking and crossing. And it halves the time for the teacher to look it over later on and acknowledge/comment. They can also do any corrections there and then.

All MN has taught me is primary schools are crazy places.