Misogynist Jeremy Clarkson gets his comeuppance… but what can be done about the thousands of other Meghan/confident-woman haters?

The more I (try to) follow the RF threads, the more I become convinced that no real adjustment of press behaviour can ever happen while having the RF at the centre of the debate. People have become too polarised.

Take the OP - you started a very valid and interesting discussion about how we delegitimise misogynist assholes like Clarkson (isn’t he a known violent thug who got sacked from a previous job for being…a violent thug?) and the role of the regulator in all this. But why did you have to include your little snipe about the Princess of Wales who, last I checked, is out and about as that’s her job. You can disagree with the job but you’re adding to the sexist narrative by trying to put a woman down (and using her appearance / outfits to do so 🤦‍♀️).

Bill Simmons can be unprofessional AND an expert in podcasts at the same time. I’m not sure we know much about what he’s like to work with so his opinion of others is just that, his opinion. Not the gospel, not a ‘hate attack’.

On other threads there were lengthy arguments about which married in woman had it worse in the RF. What on earth? Everyone had a shit time. Isn’t that the grand sum of what we’re trying to address?

I see it time and time again. People who dislike Harry and Meghan picking apart their every gesture, basking in the shadenfreude of anything that doesn’t go perfectly well for them, doubting every emotion and statement. Some of the conspiracy theories that surround them are up there with flat earther societies.

People who support Meghan and Harry have continuously put down Catherine as dim / opinion less / lazy (because sexist-imposed standards on mothers of young children mean that no matter what you do you’ll be judged for it). Every charity initiative is pulled apart and dismissed because no way could she ever be involved in something good. Her marriage and her parenting constantly undermined.

Doria and Carole haven’t escaped either. How dare Doria mind her own business? How dare Carole be a savvy business woman? And how dare either of them have ever been less than perfect? Absent / pushy / etc. More sexist tropes thrown left right and centre.

Media behaviour won’t change until OUR consumption behaviour changes. Until we’re all willing to go beyond personal likes and dislikes of any woman in the public eye and focus on the actual problem we’re trying to solve. With the current approach, at best, you will only swap one victim for another OP. Is this what you want?

But I also recognised it was clearly a reference to a Game of Thrones scene. I really don’t like the latest trend of people taking jokes deadly seriously no matter how poor taste they are. I don’t think we even need taste to be policed.

I have read the books and have not seen the show past a season 3. Many people will have recognised that this scene involving Cersei was specifically meant to be sexually humiliating by degrading her and stripping her of whatever pride or power she had. This is what Clarkson was evoking in his “joke” and absolutely needs to be policed. It was not ok. It is never ok - regardless of who.

The more I (try to) follow the RF threads, the more I become convinced that no real adjustment of press behaviour can ever happen while having the RF at the centre of the debate. People have become too polarised.

Take the OP - you started a very valid and interesting discussion about how we delegitimise misogynist assholes like Clarkson (isn’t he a known violent thug who got sacked from a previous job for being…a violent thug?) and the role of the regulator in all this. But why did you have to include your little snipe about the Princess of Wales who, last I checked, is out and about as that’s her job. You can disagree with the job but you’re adding to the sexist narrative by trying to put a woman down (and using her appearance / outfits to do so 🤦‍♀️).

Bill Simmons can be unprofessional AND an expert in podcasts at the same time. I’m not sure we know much about what he’s like to work with so his opinion of others is just that, his opinion. Not the gospel, not a ‘hate attack’.

On other threads there were lengthy arguments about which married in woman had it worse in the RF. What on earth? Everyone had a shit time. Isn’t that the grand sum of what we’re trying to address?

I see it time and time again. People who dislike Harry and Meghan picking apart their every gesture, basking in the shadenfreude of anything that doesn’t go perfectly well for them, doubting every emotion and statement. Some of the conspiracy theories that surround them are up there with flat earther societies.

People who support Meghan and Harry have continuously put down Catherine as dim / opinion less / lazy (because sexist-imposed standards on mothers of young children mean that no matter what you do you’ll be judged for it). Every charity initiative is pulled apart and dismissed because no way could she ever be involved in something good. Her marriage and her parenting constantly undermined.

Doria and Carole haven’t escaped either. How dare Doria mind her own business? How dare Carole be a savvy business woman? And how dare either of them have ever been less than perfect? Absent / pushy / etc. More sexist tropes thrown left right and centre.

Media behaviour won’t change until OUR consumption behaviour changes. Until we’re all willing to go beyond personal likes and dislikes of any woman in the public eye and focus on the actual problem we’re trying to solve. With the current approach, at best, you will only swap one victim for another OP. Is this what you want?

Yes, correct. Did you actually need IPSO’s assistance in reaching this conclusion? Most people identified it immediately as a sexist joke without being prompted. The point is that it’s not IPSO’s role to police this sort of thing, they are not supposed to be activists. It’s a matter of poor taste and was widely condemned at the time because most people didn’t need any help in judging whether it was sexist or not. In ruling on an opinion column that the subject didn’t actually make a complaint about, they have bent the rules and overreached. And achieved - what exactly? There are people on here taking this as “proof” that Meghan’s treatment was uniquely bad, so it seems what IPSO have achieved is convincing some people that only one sexist article has ever been published.

I also think it’s very damaging in general. Luckily we live in a time where sexist jokes get widely condemned. But who gets to decide what the line is, and what’s in poor taste?

Some people are really horrible to Meghan, I agree. There is now a cottage industry in being gratuitously nasty about her. But a free press, even one that offends, even one where dinosaurs tell sexist jokes (and then get condemned in other papers) is so much more important than that.

They did complain.

From BBC website...
Prince Harry and Meghan accused Clarkson of spreading "hate rhetoric". They added that the article was also spreading "dangerous conspiracy theories and misogyny".

We'll be back to Bernard Manning and Roy Chubby Brown in no time 🤣
I may joke about it, but for 21,500 to make a direct complaint to IPSO means something, and thank god not everyone thinks it was OK and dinosaurs can just say what they think.

I meant she didn’t complain to IPSO - IPSO are not meant to act on 3rd party complaints (otherwise mob rule decides what gets published - the mob might be onto something in this case, but it’s not a good principle in general!) although in the past they have acted on behalf of interested parties. They basically used that justification quite widely to act here, in my view it bent the rules.

Btw, the posters who constantly start new threads to berate a woman who they claim to have little interest in.

Thread after thread. Oprah, titles, bullying, narcissism, California, Harry’s facial expressions, Spotify, Netflix, South Park, z list actress, nobody watched suits anyway, she said on a cv she’s racially ambiguous, bananas - on and on and on. No matter the actual topic at hand.

How do you know they didn't complain to IPSO?

I was one of the 21,500 who did complain, my name wasn't released, nor would there's be, data protection an' all that

In ruling on an opinion column that the subject didn’t actually make a complaint about, they have bent the rules and overreached.

That's not how it works. Anyone can make the complaint. It doesn;t have to be the subject. They have not bent any rule, in fact IPSO are known to be useless so this is an example of them doing what they are meant to- somewhat half heartedly.

Didn't I read that there have been 700 official complaints to ipso and only two have been upheld of which this is one of them

@TallerSally
Every has-been and non-entity seeking to raise their sagging or non-existent profile (Mia Farrow? Chris Rock? Millie Mackintosh? random Spotify exec? Z-list YouTuber?) just has to find some creative insult for Meghan like “grifter”,

What can restore some form of respect for the truth,

How about you getting your facts right for a start?

Bill Simmons called her and Harry a grifter.
He's not a has-been nor a non-entity. His profile isn't sagging and he doesn't need it raising.
He isn't a random Spotify exec. He sold them a podcast network that he built from the ground for $250m. It's the second podcast network he's built - the first was for that tiny and insignificant broadcaster ESPN. Oh and before that he was one of the most widely read sportswriters across the whole if the USA. And he got headhunted to work for Jimmy Kimmel as one of his writers based on the quality of the columns he wrote.

He not only created 2 podcast networks but he also does podcast broadcasts as well. When spotify bought his network, they gave him a job to carry on running The Ringer podcast network and increase it. Which he has done. He's now tasked with building up the network to cover European sports. And on top of all that, he does 4 podcasts a week.

He's also in the top 40 most influential podcasters. There's not much he doesn't know about podcasting and he's attempted to work with and help Harry. So I guess he knows more about their situation and their attitude to work than you do.

I get your zeal in standing up for Meghan and Harry, I might even acknowledge it's merited, but before you start discrediting other people who have worked hard and are genuinely talented maybe you should do a bit of research of the facts. Because when you talk about restoring respect for the truth maybe it should start with you.

And breathe.

Are you expecting us all to care who this non-entity is? You sound like you're his wife. His CV doesn't impress me. He's unprofessional.