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Royal row between King Charles and Earl Spencer 3

835 replies

Viviennemary · 20/09/2026 17:27

A new thread and book not even published till Tuesday. I checked on Amazon and its only 12th on the non fiction bestseller list. Doesn't show Earl Spencer in a very good light imho.

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Wewinnow · 20/09/2026 23:59

Minestronemusings · 20/09/2026 19:59

I thought Charles Spencer came across very convincingly in his interview on the BBC tonight.

Especially when he spoke about how his eulogy related directly back to the difficult conversation he had had with the then Princes Charles; the emphasis on the word duty, and the boys’ blood family, and how Diana will be remembered forever. It’s all a direct response to Prince Charles. That made a lot of sense.

Also, things are much different thirty years on with the Queen and Prince Philip, and Robert Fellowes deceased, and he is able to say what he actually thought at the time, without causing distress to his godmother.

Also you are misreading the excerpt which refers to the royal train journey after the funeral, bc CS did not dismiss William at all! He said he was equally concerned for both brothers and reiterated that tonight in his conversation with Laura Kuensberg. He said he supports both of Diana’s sons.

What he said in the extract is that Harry drew his attention on the royal train at that moment bc it struck him how alone he was. The inference being that people were paying attention to William.

Later he talks about how Harry was spinning out of control and how he thought a little more careful handling and compassion towards Harry in that moment might have saved him a lot of trauma later on.

As for the valet - if that is what you mean by the equerry story - why is it confined to a particular date? Charles W has had three valets over the years. They are older men now. Presumably if he was in love with one of them, that took place over a period of time?

CS didn’t seem to regret much judging by his interview with LK tonight, although I imagine the DM or Penguin’s marketing department choose the extracts and not him.

He seemed very clear about why he had published this book and I understood his motivations a lot better. He hasn’t spoken in thirty years about the circumstances of Diana’s death and a lot has emerged in the meantime about Martin Bashir etc, and it seems appropriate that he can leave his eyewitness account and his unique perspective on Diana as a historical record so what has been published about her is more balanced. He said this will be his final word on it and as such it’s appropriate the book is called Swan Song.

Edited

This

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 21/09/2026 00:01

Minestronemusings · 20/09/2026 23:56

It will have been his agent and the marketing department of Penguin who organised the serialisation which nowadays often comes as a standard part of the overall deal for a book like this.

I'm pretty sure Earl Spencer would've known that or at least been informed. He could've said no. Presumably like Harry did, as Spare was never serialised in any British newspaper.

dustabsorber · 21/09/2026 00:16

JustAnotherWhinger · 20/09/2026 20:20

The fact he stated about Diana not being able to be buried at Frogmore because she had lost her HRH is also incorrect.

The inaccuracies in things that are easily check do make it more difficult to put faith in the things that are things he said imo.

The Duchess of Windsor is buried at Frogmore and she didn't get an HRH

Constantrunner · 21/09/2026 00:17

foxylady2 · 20/09/2026 19:21

This is simply revenge for how he feels Diana was treated by Charles and the Royal Family a score being settled very deliberately, and served very cold. And, in essence, it’s decades-old karmic debt finally coming due. You never really saw this with Elizabeth II, because she generally didn’t make enemies in quite the same way. At one level, that’s simply how the world works: how you behave is, eventually, how you get treated.

Yes I agree. And I agree although Elizabeth was not sweetness and light, she handled relationships much better. The king on the other hand acts in such a way that he makes enemies.

Constantrunner · 21/09/2026 00:23

dustabsorber · 21/09/2026 00:16

The Duchess of Windsor is buried at Frogmore and she didn't get an HRH

You have misunderstood this. Diana was not a royal so could not be buried there.
Wallis Simpson could be buried there as she was married to Edward who had been king. They were not divorced.
There actually was some discussion as to whether Wallis Simpson was eligible to be buried at frog more. Queen Elizabeth and the duke of Windsor discussed this and Elizabeth agreed to her burial there to avoid any further embarrassment for the monarchy.

Diana as a divorced woman from Charles would not be eligible to be buried there.

BemusedAmerican · 21/09/2026 02:07

If CS sold land for 60 million pounds, how much would he have cleared after taxes? Also, I would imagine the estate would owe lots in death duties that his heir would have to pay.

AlonsoMosley · 21/09/2026 05:23

I think this book is an excellent idea. He is a good writer, he grew up with her, and can tell a version the story that we did not know until now.

After all, we have the palace version, the tabloid version, the butler's version, the friend's version, the son's version and so on. His adds to the picture.

The royal family "fans" seem to have their talking points which mainly attack his character (in it for the money, a terrible father and husband, etc); he is a shoddy historian and gets his facts wrong so throw the whole lot out, and KC was obviously upset and would never ...

I found him very believeable in the interview. The interviewer was terrible. 'Twas like she was playing for an Oscar.

StartupRepair · 21/09/2026 05:53

Lol, he wouldn't be an earl in Norway as they have no aristocracy.

CoffeeCantata · 21/09/2026 06:10

AlonsoMosley · 21/09/2026 05:23

I think this book is an excellent idea. He is a good writer, he grew up with her, and can tell a version the story that we did not know until now.

After all, we have the palace version, the tabloid version, the butler's version, the friend's version, the son's version and so on. His adds to the picture.

The royal family "fans" seem to have their talking points which mainly attack his character (in it for the money, a terrible father and husband, etc); he is a shoddy historian and gets his facts wrong so throw the whole lot out, and KC was obviously upset and would never ...

I found him very believeable in the interview. The interviewer was terrible. 'Twas like she was playing for an Oscar.

He’s certainly very plausible.

Did you see the Rosebud podcast where Gyles Brandreth interviewed him?

I wouldn’t trust him further than I could throw him. Absolute creep, but you do you.

foxylady2 · 21/09/2026 06:55

Constantrunner · 21/09/2026 00:23

You have misunderstood this. Diana was not a royal so could not be buried there.
Wallis Simpson could be buried there as she was married to Edward who had been king. They were not divorced.
There actually was some discussion as to whether Wallis Simpson was eligible to be buried at frog more. Queen Elizabeth and the duke of Windsor discussed this and Elizabeth agreed to her burial there to avoid any further embarrassment for the monarchy.

Diana as a divorced woman from Charles would not be eligible to be buried there.

I take it that Camilla has been sufficiently "royal-washed" to get out the imperial stains that she (and he !) brought to the marriage. What nonsense all this stuff is for 2026 and all made-up of course by humans. As soon as QE2 was dead and buried they got rid of the "consort" in "Queen" Camilla's name. She probably knew all this nonsense was coming down the line - hence the £12 million for Andie's tormentors to give her some peace in her final years from the storms brewing outside the palace gates.

foxylady2 · 21/09/2026 06:57

AlonsoMosley · 21/09/2026 05:23

I think this book is an excellent idea. He is a good writer, he grew up with her, and can tell a version the story that we did not know until now.

After all, we have the palace version, the tabloid version, the butler's version, the friend's version, the son's version and so on. His adds to the picture.

The royal family "fans" seem to have their talking points which mainly attack his character (in it for the money, a terrible father and husband, etc); he is a shoddy historian and gets his facts wrong so throw the whole lot out, and KC was obviously upset and would never ...

I found him very believeable in the interview. The interviewer was terrible. 'Twas like she was playing for an Oscar.

Kuenesberg is terrible and she can barely conceal her POV.

LetsNotForgetQueenMary · 21/09/2026 07:05

Huge estates and divorces are expensive. As are legal wranglings between your wives when you’re paying the costs of both sides. He has had to sell artwork before to fund repairs to the house. He lost one of his income streams a few years ago when William gained control of Diana’s possessions and put a stop to Charles Spencer letting people have a gawp for money, and hawking them around the USA.

foxylady2 · 21/09/2026 07:06

AN Wilson chimes in - MAIL+

AN WILSON: An anecdote Earl Spencer told me years ago makes me 100% sure that HE is telling us the truth

The fury caused by Charles Spencer’s explosive memoir of his sister Diana is quite understandable. Hasn’t the King got enough on his plate, what with the scandal of his brother Andrew, the return of Meghan and Harry to Britain, the frailty of his own health?
Even if Charles Spencer is understandably still angry with his ex-brother-in-law, could he not have been kind enough to keep his thoughts to himself?
Thirty years ago, Charles Windsor was one of the most hated men in England, and his then girlfriend Camilla Parker Bowles was one of the most hated women. But time has passed.
Much to many people’s surprise, Prince Charles, who had inflicted such damage on the monarchy by his marital disaster, turned out to be a kindly, good-humoured old king, brave and dignified in his illness, and much-loved in many circles.
Mrs Parker Bowles has visibly been a wise, long-suffering companion to him. We have all committed sins in our youth. Isn’t it time to let bygones be bygones? And why should Lord Spencer selfishly come and spoil it all by writing his ‘malicious’ memoirs?
This is the line being peddled by the so-called ‘friends of the King’, who have been briefing so vigorously against Charles Spencer, hurling every possible insult against him, deriding him for his own failed marriages, and even suggesting his motives for writing Swan Song were a twisted mixture of malice and the need to pay the alimony to his third ex.
All these reactions are understandable, but they also mysteriously miss the point. It seems to me blindingly obvious that Charles Spencer was right to publish his book, and right to do so now.
First, because what he has said and written is true. The King has expostulated, but he has not denied the substantial truth of Spencer’s recollections. I am 100 per cent certain that Spencer’s recollections are true.

It is quite unthinkable that he has invented, for example, the by-now notorious telephone call which concluded with the then Prince of Wales saying: ‘We’ll forget her soon enough.’
Equally true – Charles Spencer himself told me this anecdote years ago, not that long after his father’s death – is his memory of Prince Charles, on the day of John Spencer’s funeral, saying to the young, grief-stricken earl: ‘You’re so lucky!’ Although the prince was attending the funeral of his father-in-law, the day was seen, entirely, through Charles Windsor’s own eyes. It was all about him – yet another reason for everyone to feel sorry for Prince Charles. As far as he saw things, Spencer was ‘lucky’ to inherit his father’s title, whereas poor old Prince Charles was still waiting, and waiting, and waiting, for his mother to die.
It is not entirely clear how much our King has a sense of humour. (His love of the appalling Goon Show might suggest not.) He would not have had the lightness of touch of his forebear, Prince Bertie (later Edward VII). Coming down the steps of St Paul’s Cathedral, having celebrated the Diamond Jubilee of his mother Queen Victoria, Bertie heard his equerry say what a beautiful service it had been. ‘Ah!’ said Bertie. ‘You have just spent an hour offering thanks to the Eternal Father. But I am cursed with the Eternal Mother.’
Charles Windsor has been longing all his life to be centre stage. He could not wait to be King, but his mother made him wait until she was 96. His parents neglected him, and then, after 15 years of adulthood and a series of unsuitable partners, he was married off, against his will in what was essentially an arranged marriage, to his 20-year-old bride, Diana Spencer.

Diana immediately wowed the crowds on a prodigious scale. Having played second fiddle to his mother for 30 years, Prince Charles visibly sulked and pouted while the world fell in love with his wife.
And, with appalling cruelty and clumsiness, he told her that he did not love her on the night before their wedding and continued to go on seeing Mrs Parker Bowles – the only sensible person in his life apart from his sister, Anne.
No wonder Diana was shattered by her husband’s adultery, and no wonder her brother continues to feel her pain.
I would say Charles Spencer and I were friendly acquaintances, rather than friends, but we have met on a number of occasions. I have stayed at Althorp three times and, for a while, we shared an agent.
I first met him in a modest but stylish Oxford restaurant, when he was an undergraduate wearing all the ‘subfusc’ – white tie and gown – which students put on to take their final exams. And he was being given a celebratory lunch by his sister – Diana. On that occasion, as with the next time we met, years later, when she came to lunch at the Evening Standard newspaper where I worked, she bubbled with charm, humour and delicacy. She was, in person, as on the great public stage, an embodiment of charm. And you felt that if you were married to her, you would be totally obscured. You would require profound personal humility to carry it off.
Poor King Charles is prodigiously self-obsessed. His outbursts of self-protective rage (demonstrated on the very day of his accession when the fountain pen spluttered ink as he spluttered with fury) are well known among everyone who has ever known him.

He was the worst possible husband for her, and she was the worst possible choice of wife for him. He spent the honeymoon sitting on the deck of the Royal Yacht reading twaddle by Laurens Van Der Post while the bored Diana chatted to the crew.
So, the whole thing is a tragedy. A true tragedy, in that probably all those concerned, flawed and imperfect as they were and are – the grannies who dreamed up the marriage, the bride and groom so ill-matched, their flawed, damaged sons – set out with the hope that they would do good.
As it was, this disastrous marriage very nearly brought the monarchy to an end. And its consequences – two traumatised sons, who are still living with the consequences and making the rest of us live with those consequences, could yet finish off the monarchy itself.
So, these things do matter.
Since I first met Spencer he has gone on to be an excellent historian and a first-rate writer. As an historian, he knows that he must set the record straight.
Although it might sound strange, it is more tactful for Spencer to do so now, while the King is still alive, rather than to wait for Charles III to die. Then it would seem like dancing on his grave.
We need to be reminded of how appallingly not only Charles Windsor, but all the Royal Family, behaved towards Diana. That is why the nation turned against all of them. It was not just the Press and the paparazzi who drove her to her desperate end, it was the callousness of the Windsors. I salute Charles Spencer for his bravery in saying all this.
He is a sensitive man who would know full well what the reaction to his book would be. The ‘friends’ of the King and the stuffpots will try to impugn Spencer’s integrity by smearing his character. But the truth is the truth. And, when you think about it – now Diana is, alas, no longer with us – no one else could have told the true story except her brother.

Earl Charles Spencer - News and Updates on Princess Diana's Brother | Daily Mail Online

Get the latest news and updates on Earl Charles Spencer, Princess Diana's brother, from Mail Online.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/earl-charles-spencer/index.html

foxylady2 · 21/09/2026 07:16

Having read A. N. Wilson’s piece, watched the interview and considered the matter carefully, I increasingly believe that Charles did say what was reported.

So the real question is whether that matters—not simply as an isolated remark, but for what it reveals about the man and, more broadly, about the institution around him.

Is this really the institution we want to preserve at all costs, and for these people to reign over us for generations to come?

And perhaps, at some point, Charles and the Palace have realised this too. The drip-drip-drip of scandal, with another little shaft of light shining into the supposedly impenetrable “magic” of the institution almost every month, steadily puts them on the defensive.

The AMW is yet to blow up and, if it does, it could be considerably more damaging. Perhaps that is precisely why the Palace has decided that this particular battle has to be fought.

Because once the magic starts to unravel, the question is no longer simply what was said. It becomes what the institution itself is prepared to defend, and why.

I fully expect some colour co-ordinated Firm show of strength at some event in short order in the near future!

LaMarschallin · 21/09/2026 07:26

I absolutely don't believe the unsavoury rumours about Harry's parentage.
He's got the King's very close set eyes (although I think it's flattering him absurdly to suggest he ever looked like a young Prince Philip).
However, I think it was a mistake for Spencer to stress the "we, your blood family...".
Surely, as an "historian", he knows that the Windsors most definitely count as William's and Harry's blood family too.
It was a meaningless, attention-seeking phrase.

smilesy · 21/09/2026 07:42

LaMarschallin · 21/09/2026 07:26

I absolutely don't believe the unsavoury rumours about Harry's parentage.
He's got the King's very close set eyes (although I think it's flattering him absurdly to suggest he ever looked like a young Prince Philip).
However, I think it was a mistake for Spencer to stress the "we, your blood family...".
Surely, as an "historian", he knows that the Windsors most definitely count as William's and Harry's blood family too.
It was a meaningless, attention-seeking phrase.

I think that it now ingrained in the Spencer’s that their lineage is more “Royal” than the Windsors and they have something of an obsession with their “Royal blood”. I wonder if this is behind them firstly making huge efforts to marry one of their daughters in to the RF ( Charles W was in a relationship with one of Diana’s sisters before he was engaged to her), secondly this reference to being the boys blood family and now these attempts to smear the RF. It’s like something from the War of the Roses😵‍💫

Messedupmyusernameagain · 21/09/2026 07:45

I found him very believable in his interview too. He also said Diana had been staying with him a in SA a few months before so they were not estranged, as has been said here. He is estranged from one of the daughters that were also there, so it would be stupid to lie about something his estranged DD could just say ' that's a lie' I can believe the KC is a completely different person from the person he was 30 years ago because his personal life is much happier and he has a wife he is far more suited to. who seems to spend her life placating him.
I agree with you @foxylady2. Is this the kind of institution we want to have to endlessly defend? Because all of them, Harry, Charles, Andrew are not outliers- they are a product of their upbringing and the Royal system. If people need to say ' Thank God for Catherine's it means that just by sheer luck someone non Royal and non Aristo has had to come in to make sure we have an undamaged HoS. Well the only job the RF need to do is ensure that we have a half normal HoS and as they insist on inflicting the rest of their children on us, normal children. They consistently manage not to do that, yet they are desperate to keep the whole show on the road.

Minestronemusings · 21/09/2026 07:59

LetsNotForgetQueenMary · 21/09/2026 07:05

Huge estates and divorces are expensive. As are legal wranglings between your wives when you’re paying the costs of both sides. He has had to sell artwork before to fund repairs to the house. He lost one of his income streams a few years ago when William gained control of Diana’s possessions and put a stop to Charles Spencer letting people have a gawp for money, and hawking them around the USA.

Do you have a source for that latter claim please?

I thought that the rumours about such a lawsuit over Diana's possessions originated entirely from fictionalised, clickbait videos and rumours on social media.

Charles Spencer had Diana’s wedding dress for his exhibition of her life and then it was passed on to William and Harry when they turned thirty I believe, but that was always the arrangement from the outset according to Diana’s wishes.

JustAnotherWhinger · 21/09/2026 08:08

Constantrunner · 21/09/2026 00:23

You have misunderstood this. Diana was not a royal so could not be buried there.
Wallis Simpson could be buried there as she was married to Edward who had been king. They were not divorced.
There actually was some discussion as to whether Wallis Simpson was eligible to be buried at frog more. Queen Elizabeth and the duke of Windsor discussed this and Elizabeth agreed to her burial there to avoid any further embarrassment for the monarchy.

Diana as a divorced woman from Charles would not be eligible to be buried there.

It’s Earl Spencer who has misunderstood.

He has stated that the Queen said she could be buried at Frogmore, but he knew she couldn’t because she had lost her HRH.

She could be buried at Frogmore with the Queen’s say-so. There are multiple people who don’t have HRH’s, not just the Duchess of Windsor (some before her and some after), that is not the requirement for burial.

Serenster · 21/09/2026 08:11

Constantrunner · 21/09/2026 00:23

You have misunderstood this. Diana was not a royal so could not be buried there.
Wallis Simpson could be buried there as she was married to Edward who had been king. They were not divorced.
There actually was some discussion as to whether Wallis Simpson was eligible to be buried at frog more. Queen Elizabeth and the duke of Windsor discussed this and Elizabeth agreed to her burial there to avoid any further embarrassment for the monarchy.

Diana as a divorced woman from Charles would not be eligible to be buried there.

I think you misunderstand this. The Queen was the person who suggested Diana be buried at Frogmore. That made her eligible to be buried there, as the Queen is the ultimate arbiter of who gets buried in the Royal Burial Ground!

Constantrunner · 21/09/2026 08:13

JustAnotherWhinger · 21/09/2026 08:08

It’s Earl Spencer who has misunderstood.

He has stated that the Queen said she could be buried at Frogmore, but he knew she couldn’t because she had lost her HRH.

She could be buried at Frogmore with the Queen’s say-so. There are multiple people who don’t have HRH’s, not just the Duchess of Windsor (some before her and some after), that is not the requirement for burial.

Earl Spencer notes that while the Queen suggested Frogmore, his family insisted on bringing Diana home to Althorp because she would have wanted that. He also points out that losing her HRH title during her divorce made her ineligible for Frogmore.
Of course the queen could override eligibility and was offering to do that. Because frog more is supposed to be for royals, their spouses and children. An ex wife with no royal title, is not eligible according to the rules.

Serenster · 21/09/2026 08:14

Ha - we all cross-posted 😀

JustAnotherWhinger · 21/09/2026 08:17

Constantrunner · 21/09/2026 08:13

Earl Spencer notes that while the Queen suggested Frogmore, his family insisted on bringing Diana home to Althorp because she would have wanted that. He also points out that losing her HRH title during her divorce made her ineligible for Frogmore.
Of course the queen could override eligibility and was offering to do that. Because frog more is supposed to be for royals, their spouses and children. An ex wife with no royal title, is not eligible according to the rules.

Edited

He said that losing her HRH made her ineligible for Frogmore. That’s simply not the case. The HRH was neither here nor there as it’s not a pre-requisite to be HRH to be buried there, as his sentence implied.

If you’re presenting your book as a factual history of something then the factual details are important and his presenting of that one is wrong.

smilesy · 21/09/2026 08:17

Minestronemusings · 21/09/2026 07:59

Do you have a source for that latter claim please?

I thought that the rumours about such a lawsuit over Diana's possessions originated entirely from fictionalised, clickbait videos and rumours on social media.

Charles Spencer had Diana’s wedding dress for his exhibition of her life and then it was passed on to William and Harry when they turned thirty I believe, but that was always the arrangement from the outset according to Diana’s wishes.

I think you have misread the post you are replying to. It refers to legal wranglings with his ex wives. Not with William. And yes, William gaining control of Diana’s possessions as per her will will have de facto put a stop to the wedding gown being toured around the States

JustAnotherWhinger · 21/09/2026 08:23

Minestronemusings · 21/09/2026 07:59

Do you have a source for that latter claim please?

I thought that the rumours about such a lawsuit over Diana's possessions originated entirely from fictionalised, clickbait videos and rumours on social media.

Charles Spencer had Diana’s wedding dress for his exhibition of her life and then it was passed on to William and Harry when they turned thirty I believe, but that was always the arrangement from the outset according to Diana’s wishes.

Technically Diana’s wishes were that the two boys got full access and control at 25.

Her mother and sister, as her executors, got an order to vary the will and it was changed to 30.

I actually wonder if that, and the changes made to what she left for her godchildren, will feature anywhere in the book.

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