Royal row between King Charles and Earl Spencer 3

[Viviennemary]

A new thread and book not even published till Tuesday. I checked on Amazon and its only 12th on the non fiction bestseller list. Doesn't show Earl Spencer in a very good light imho.

Perhaps they saw one of the 4 nicked copies? 😂

@CoffeeCantata China is all over countries that are in the Commonwealth. Financially the commonwealth means nothing. Uk cannot take anything from these countries ever again - but China can, and is. But, the commonwealth countries make their own decisions.

You are welcome, no shame in not knowing these things.

No it’s not.

Yes, I’d agree with all that. My husband used to work in Egypt a lot and for a very long time there’s been huge infrastructure investment there from China - for at least 20 years.

noth intrinsically wrong with that except that China is known to be a hostile Powell’s as regards the UK. When in cahoots wth Russia it’s unstoppable.

Historian Niall Ferguson warned years ago that this century would be China’s in the same way the British were Top Nation in the 1800s and the USA were in the 20th century.

The March of History!

Sorry for typos - fighting my old iPad and the despicable, illiterate autocorrect.😡

QE2 did most of the flag-down, independence celebrations back in the day and genuinely seemed to believe that the Commonwealth was something of substance. Whatever it once was and I doubt it amounts to very much in the modern era I can understand why many countries would rather move on from an institution whose historical reality was essentially: Britain controlled you, exploited your resources and, in many cases, got your sons to fight for Britain and Europe.

That is something most former colonies would probably rather forget than have memorialised and institutionalised in perpetuity.

And I found the spectacle of their notorious visit to Jamaica being carried around on high chairs and all the rest of it particularly uncomfortable. Frankly, the sooner we put the Commonwealth out of its misery, the better it will be for everyone.

For various events back in the day, I used to visit the Commonwealth Centre near Holland Park. It was a rather sorry-looking sort of building, built in the 1960s, I think, with static displays for each Commonwealth country.
The booths seemed to be permanently frozen in time fading photographs, old information panels and displays that looked as though they had been hastily put together decades earlier, perhaps for some royal opening, and then simply never properly replaced or updated.

It always struck me as a physical representation of the Commonwealth itself: something that had once seemed important and purposeful, but which had gradually become rather tired, dated and disconnected from the modern world.
I think the building has been demolished now, which somehow seems appropriate.

All the bloody time - those damn bloody Ipads.. !!

And I found the spectacle of their notorious visit to Jamaica being carried around on high chairs and all the rest of it particularly uncomfortable. Frankly, the sooner we put the Commonwealth out of its misery, the better it will be for everyone

Nice of you to tell the citizens of Tuvalu (not Jamaica - big difference) that their culture and traditions make you uncomfortable. That’s your problem not theirs, surely? William and Kate at least were happy to respect what their hosts wanted to do to mark their visit in a way meaningful to the Tuvaluans.

And likewise, nice of you to decide you know what’s best for the 55 countries (56 counting the UK) that are voluntary members of a global organisation. Do you have similar feelings about other International Governmental Organisations like the Arab League, the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the Community of Portuguese Language Countries etc?

It's all over the news. It's what happens, things then get discussed on here.

I'm less bothered about defending the rf tbh. I just loathe fake people and Spencer's proclamations about not making money from his sister, to protect his nephews and now to be 'an eye witness to history' are all just absolute nonsense.

He should cancel anymore photo sessions, cancel promos and retreat quietly tail between his legs.

We all find it amusing too. Well not the bit about making money out of a dead sister, obviously.

@foxylady

You seem to have swallowed the line about the so-called “disastrous “ Jamaican tour. Check out the actual details- it’s fascinating how the facts were twisted to give a false impression, and it seems to have been a very successful propaganda campaign. There’s a discussion in detail on a recent thread.

W&C were carried on chairs because the Jamaican hosts planned that for them..im sniggering that you think they’d go there and pompously decree”My man, bring us 2 gold chairs immediately and carry us aloft!”

Also, check out what the circs were of the (again, now quite wrongly notorious) children behind the fence photo. w&C were just leaving an engagement when they spotted schoolchildren penned behind a fence some distance away, so very sweetly went over to them and shook hands through the fence. How, in the name of God, this could ever be spun as bad in any way is a warning to us all about the power of malicious propaganda.

Who was behind the misinformation campaign? Republicans and anti- CW activists, obvs, and the SS have been blamed too. I suspect they merely took advantage of it, rather than orchestrated it, but they do love the false narrative. I think hostile powers such as China and Russia have a strong interest in this kind of destabilising activity and are probably the manipulators here.

Amazing how many people just swallow it though, because it suits their narrative.

'W&C were carried on chairs because the Jamaican hosts planned that for them..im sniggering that you think they’d go there and pompously decree”My man, bring us 2 gold chairs immediately and carry us aloft!”

Exactly. As if they asked for it! For the pp to dismiss and laugh at local culture is absolutely appalling. Different countries don't all do things the way we do.

The commonwealth began as a psych op to help the sort of people who needed to believe that the UK still had global influence post WW2 cope with reality.

The UK has no control over the commonwealth .
That the developing nations and small island nations want to band together with other nations by joining the commonwealth makes perfect sense .
Elizabeth imposed Charles on them as ‘leader’ .
I doubt anyone will try to inflict William on them . Yes I said inflict . Jamaica was an utter disgrace of tone deafness from William and Kate .
Actually I think the chair carrying was a different William and Kate incident .
Jamaica was the white saviour jeep fiasco and being sacked by the Jamaican PM on camera .
Now about those reparations …..

Fair point I got the location wrong: it was Tuvalu, not Jamaica. I’ll happily correct that.

But the underlying point remains. 2 white people being carried aloft on high chairs may be a perfectly genuine Tuvaluan tradition, and William and Kate were entirely entitled to respect the wishes of their hosts. That doesn't mean everyone has to regard the spectacle as appropriate or attractive in the modern era. I found it uncomfortable precisely because of the imagery involved two visiting royals being physically carried above other people on raised chairs has an unmistakably hierarchical appearance.

Respecting another culture doesn't require suspending your own judgement about a particular ceremony. You can understand and respect the tradition while still thinking that the visual symbolism looks distinctly out of place in the 21st century.

And my wider point about the Commonwealth remains. Its members being voluntary participants doesn't make it immune from criticism. The fact that 56 countries choose to belong is a reason to ask what the organisation actually does for them, not a reason to assume that its continued existence is beyond question.

Nice of you, though, to decide that the status quo should simply be preserved rather than engaging with the perfectly legitimate debate about whether the Commonwealth remains useful and relevant, what it costs, and what purpose it serves. The willingness to question established institutions rather than simply accepting them is surely a sign of a healthy democracy.

@foxylady2

And before I am misinterpreted as promoting Empire II, I have clarified upthread that I have no issue with countries leaving the CW - and neither had QE2. Fine that Jamaica wants to leave - but we should be aware of who’s moving in when the UK “leaves”.

The CW is a totally voluntary club and it’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise. It may have run its course, or it may still serve a purpose- that’s up to the members, not the British monarchy.

It was Tuvalu where William and Kate were carried on chairs (actually a decorated platform), not Jamaica. It was part of a traditional welcome ceremony and celebration. The criticism of this is woefully misplaced. It would have been quite wrong for William and Kate to snub their hosts just because some people are uncomfortable with this.

There is some strong delusion going on here

So people who are disgusted by the pedophile protecting Windsors are Russian agents ? And theses same people accuse others of believing conspiracies !

The facts are - younger demographics want rid . That fact has not changed
I suspect the Windsors are well aware of this fact and are stuffing their already stuffed pockets as fast as they can

So what if other countries move in ?

That is up to the nations themselves and none of our business .

Don’t know where to start with this!😂😂 So many batty assertions.

Maybe the financial aid given over decades should be offset against any reparations? Seems fair to me.

Yes, I’m old enough to remember the Investiture of the Prince of Wales at Caernarfon Castle, which we were forced to watch at school as children. They wisely ditched that for William, recognising that it was a ceremony that had had its day. That, and the fact that the Welsh would probably have had huge demonstrations against it anyway, and probably the spectacle of William mangling the Welsh language as part of the ceremony.

Just seen Piers Morgan on GMB and he refers back to his own book based on his diaries at the time. In his diaries he covers the conversation with CS. Given his book is based on contemporaneous diaries and was published in 2005 there is a credible source with a different recollection of events.

The Insider: The private Diaries of a Scandalous Decade.

This does cast further doubt on CS’ accurate recollections of conversations he had at the time.

@foxylady2 I do think the commonwealth is outdated. It’s more of a leaders Club to meet royalty. They do mostly turn up though. While signing away their mineral deposits to China.

Jamaica - it was not the chairs. It was the old Land Rover and local dc behind metal chain link fences. PR disaster and nothing to do with Russia! They won’t be making that mistake again. Is Catherine actually travelling anywhere? It’s a very slimmed down monarchy right now.

Exactly. I think the point is no-one cares. They can leave as they wish and I hope more do.

Good thing the Ukrainians don’t have your attitude.

Oh ho ho!

You wait! It will most certainly be our business in a decade or so. This century is the century of China, so start getting used to it.

I don’t think there’s anything we can do, though.