Royal row between King Charles and Earl Spencer

[Viviennemary]

Buckingham Palace said they don't usually comment but they can't stay silent. Apparently Prince Charles said at the time of Diana's death rest assured we'll forget her soon enough. Which is pretty horrendous. Charles has more or less said grief had clouded Earl Spencer's judgement and memory.

I don't know why he has waited nearly 30 years to come out with this.

We all know he should have married Camilla but he didn't
However he never fell out of love with her and this contributed to his marriage breaking up

I have never heard this. My grandson attended his step-grandfather's funeral. He was 13. He was among those following the coffin. This is entirely reasonable and children may wish to do it. In a RF it might be a duty - and Prince Edward's son stood guard at his grandmother's catafalque, I think he chose to - or it may be customary not to (in this RF I think that is the case).

And an autopsy in between. There is usually far longer if there is an autopsy and flight from abroad.
It was rushed.

Yes, absolutely agree.

Unfortunately, even up until the 1980s, there was still this archaic nonsense about virgin brides and only marriage to other aristocrats was acceptable. Even now there’s still references to marrying “commoners” as though these individuals crawled out of a hovel.

Time for this whole institution to go. The Windsors and The Spencers are all representatives of an unequal and outdated anachronism. The trouble is; thousands still turn out to clap and cheer a bunch of overprivileged individuals gracing us with their presence, and as long as they do, this farce will continue.

Did Prince Charles have to identify Diana? I don't know how smashed up she was. Interesting about Diana's mother wanting to see her body and being refused.
I belong to the school of thought that seeing the body is somehow settling and a first step, but I know it isn't what everyone wants to do. Maybe that's a lesson for the King.

In a general way, I think funeral director practices have come on in the last 50 years. Once, a minute with two other people there, just to say goodbye. Nowadays - the body's in chapel 3. You can go in and stay as long as you like. Just let us know when you go.

Harry made it clear that they were asked, but with no real option to say no. He was 12. There was an enormous crowd of weeping and upset people. Maybe you think it is appropriate for a bereaved child to walk behind their mother's coffin through that. But most people disagree with you.

I don't believe that is the sort of thing Charles would say to her brother.

It is impossible to know exactly what was said.

But is true that Charles resented all the fuss made of Diana while they were married, and is much more comfortable with a partner who doesn't stand out in the way Diana did, lovely though Camilla looks, as an older consort.

It is also true that the initial feelings of loss at Diana's death and resentment of Camilla have softened a lot, not least because these were more vehement in a generation of older royalists that is ever more depleted as the years go by.

It is quite possible that the truth is somewhere in the middle. It is likely, I think, that the then Prince Charles made comments that upset Charles Spencer, even if he didn't quite say what was alleged.

I agree. It's plausible that he made the remark about the public hysteria, but not about family members.

I have found the opposite. Viewing bodies was much more common in the eighties.
Charles officially collected Diana's body and took charge of it. He was her ex wife and it was not his role to do this. It was also not his role to deny her mother permission to view Diana's body. But he still did it.

"what they do every stinking time" or, the pens are personally out to get me?

Yep. Agree. I remember speculation on various BBC programmes as to the reason the boys were walking behind the coffin and that there were concerns at the time that Charles would attract the anger of the public along the route of the cortège. I also remember very well a lot of speculation as to why her funeral was taking place only six days after her death. The consensus at the time was that the RF wanted it over and done with because of the continuing public scrutiny and hostility, so the alleged comment doesn’t seem so far fetched if he meant forgotten by the public.

Sure everyone who ever hears or witnesses Charles doing something wrong is confused or crazy. Charles is an absolute saint who has no temper, in spite of ripping a sink off the wall. Showing his rage with then pen. Having 11 out of 12 gardeners quit saying he shouted, barked orders and had a temper. All are simply confused. None of this ever happened. Charles is a living saint.

Nope. The media widely reported that it was Charles idea to have the children walk behind their mother's coffin.

Not that I remember and in years since Blair camp and Prince Philip often get blamed for that decision.

It's why I find it interesting that recent fingers have pointed more to Charles for it coming about.

I do remember there being talk about at time that Charles’s feared the wrath of the public - and I think Blair said in biography he was more in favour of their appeasing ideas - but saw Alastair Campbell deny it was them behind the walk behind coffin bit - suggesting Charles camp for it.

But I do not think it is clear how it came about - and years since others have found themselves blamed so it's got very murky since especially as public dissproval for it got more vocal.

Well said - you could have added that they’re obsessed with money, under-pay their staff and go to extreme lengths to conceal their wealth.

I wasn't talking about the numbers of people viewing bodies now. I was talking about the change in the practices of funeral directors.

An earlier poster said that Diana's mother was against the marriage, but my understanding is that when Diana had a few pre wedding wobbles, the mother and one of her sisters, both said that the tea towels had already been printed, so she had to go through with it!.
The idea of K Charles having to marry a virgin is really a relic from pre DNA days, to ensure that the King was actually the father of any children..
Also, I seem to remember that former P. Andrew was dating Koo Stark, who as an aspiring actress had made some rather dubious early films (soft porn style?), and this was spread all over the papers, and the relationship was effectively put a stop to. Which is rather a shame, as he may have been better off with KS and have had a very different future than the one he had.
So, the first reason (DNA) no longer applies, but the second reason is quite important. Sarah Ferguson had a 'past', but her former boyfriends did NOT release dubious pictures of her, etc.
So, I think this rule of marrying a virgin would probably not really apply in future.
I still feel that Charles S is muck raking in order to sell his book. He needs to finance his latest divorce after all.

They both behaved badly towards her. KC - well we know he was shagging Camilla and CS because he would let Diana stay with him because of the paps. Both men have. Not treated women well it seems but if I had to pick who is telling the truth, I’d go Charles Spencer.

That wasn’t the reason people left.

Yes agreed. Like a lot of adults at the time I watched and read a lot of the coverage as it was all so extraordinary. The general mood was against the children walking behind the coffin. But the media reported the children wanted to do this. A not entirely accurate fact as it turns out.

Spencer clearly said publicly that the children should not be asked to do this.

And the media speculated widely that the children were being used as human shields.

Charles would have been booed without the children there. I am pretty sure of that.

And the timescale was extraordinarily short with Diana's family and friends sidelined as much as the royals could get away with.

And it’s not difficult to see why.

Given how angry CS appeared to be in the aftermath of Diana’s death and his eulogy etc. I don’t believe for one minute he’s waited 30 years to deliver this particular bombshell,I just don’t believe it happened.

I read somewhere that without Diana's death, Althorp would have not have had the money for the upkeep of it.

I wonder if the visitor numbers have dropped off enough to warrant a book as a source of funds?

Interesting to see that the Palace are coming out now, before DM publishes more excerpts. It is obviously going to hurt KC3 reputation… It’s all about timing, with these things!

I remember seeing Prince Charles' face when he accompanied Diana's body back to England. I do not believe it was the face of someone who would have made that remark

Unless Spencer recorded the call we'll probably never know if Charles said it or not, @Hadalifeonce, but I wouldn't want to assume anything from his expression at the time. Just as it may have been some kind of grief, it could equally have been realisation that he'd be massively criticised and that his path to being with Camilla had just got a lot more difficult

As for the age old thing about the Queen being "dragged down to London by public opinion", what would have been wrong with making the broadcast she did from Balmoral?