Andrew - continuing his effort to end the Monarchy, part 2

[AnnunciataM]

I am not the OP of the previous thread but we are nearly at 1000 posts and there's been some very good discussion on there.

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/5473274-andrew-continuing-his-effort-to-end-the-monarchy

It wouldn’t surprise me if Charles was approached about it beforehand. Someone certainly tipped off the press.

I just hope he is in a general custody unit, with doors banging, the smell of feet, drinks shouting and swearing.

AMW is staying at one Sandringham property while they tart up the one he will be living at. It was sort of sold to us as the king had enough and decided enough brother you are out tonight, very handy timing. This was few weeks ago? Nowhere to put it all, so it's somewhere 🤷 and I would wager it has been gone through with a tooth comb by friendlies because if I was the king none of that shit would be seeing the light of day. Police searching 2 empty properties saying they will want to go through his phone and gadgets...I'm betting they have been wiped or destroyed. I can't help feeling this is for show.
What they should be searching are the sealed trade envoy files.

While that is true, it's a moot point either way. It doesn't matter if it's Republic or Joe Public who demanded this - the point I was trying to make was that it was NOT the RF who handed Andrew over.

Quite frankly, I am cynical enough to think this plays perfectly into the RF's hands. Andrew is arrested on, relatively speaking, the less offensive charges, it gives the impression that the RF are not above the law, it also forces the media to quiet speculation so as not to influence current ongoing legal proceedings and eventually, it all dies down and the RF can say 'see? we did what we were supposed to.'

It's obvious they knew of all this before the news came to light. William's hiring of a crisis manager was very likely in anticipation of this.

Andrew is arrested on, relatively speaking, the less offensive charges

Perhaps less offensive charges.

More importantly, charges that are more likely to result in a successful prosecution, given that they are more likely to come with solid evidence, and don't involve changes in statute over time (like the trafficking law).

Looking out for a future episode of 24 hours in police custody

Again, I don't disagree with any of that. That is all true and I do hope, what with tangible evidence, that any prosecution is successful.

The point I continue to make is that all this is happening DESPITE the RF's best efforts, not BECAUSE of them.

Just seen this on the BBC world news which appears to be melting down

He's had months to prepare for this possibility.

I wonder if they'll manage to find anything relevant

Search the teddy bears. 😁

Ironically I think its the Royalists and the apologists who will see the end of the RF. Because the only way they survive is by being forced to look at their own behaviour and completely reforming the number of people on the Royal payroll, their secrecy around their activities and finances and the lackeys and sycophants surrounding them. If they try and get away with saying 'nothing to do with us' and carrying on with business as usual, I think it will be the end of them.

Sky news saying Gordon brown has submitted new documents today to all police ref the trafficking and girls.

Andrew had destroyed documents over Christmas. That was known. But given that he’s not the brightest, and documents would have been kept at the palace level, aside from the Epstein emails, I’m holding out hope that there’s plenty of evidence available.

Edit: meant to quote a diff. post

But agree with you, there will be a chain of evidence that does not rely on Andrew’s documents.

Apparently he didnt know. The press have been camped out there since he moved, and its his birthday today. I suspect he was arrested on his birthday so the press couldcsee that hed been arrested. The police are on the hook for this too not only because of their previoys inaction but because of the hundreds of police and RPO's over the years it would have needed to turn a blind eye.

They could still easily peter out, but with this refusing to go away the RF had to do something and an arrest is in indeed significant no matter how choreographed it might have been

Trouble is, if sufficient evidence to charge and convict either can't be found, or has been destroyed or "lost", we'll be right back with Andrew insisting he's never been convicted of anything and expecting to go on appearing with the rest

The fact that i dividual plods turned a blind eye could be a very big problem for the individual plods and thus for the prosecution.

The officers who bunked at Epstein's NY house while AWM was there ( or anywherevelse, for that matter). If they saw anything illegal going on - shouldn't they have reported it at the time?

I think it’s all in storage and the Police have access.

That what was in the ?Guardian earlier but I’ll try and check.

i wonder if Epstein kept the worst of the activities connected to the very young girls hidden when they had UK police officers on site at his various properties because I can’t understand how they could have witnessed that and kept working for Andrew or not reported it, or not whistleblown to the press etc.

Was Andrew considered ‘safe’ once inside the property so the protection officers would go and sit in their rooms, close the door and pretend it wasn’t happening?

I think Andrew is fighting on two fronts here

1. Involvement in trafficking etc.
2. Wrongdoing as a Trade Envoy

I think 1 is the more serious and repulsive , but that is no reason not to investigate him for 2 separately. If appropriate I would like him to be investigated for both, but investigating him for 2 doesn't preclude him being investigated for 1 as a different thing. I don't think the police are doing an either / or here at the moment.

ETA So as I think @bluegreygreen said - prosecute him for what there is evidence for because I think he could potentially be facing more than one charge in the fulness of time.

No - the police can charge him with whatever offences they think they can prove at whatever stage they think fit. It’s not a “one and done” situation.

I also wouldn’t expect Andrew to be charged with anything tomorrow. Proper investigations take time and Thames Valley Police will not want to make a silly error that means their case falters. That would not be a sign that he won’t be charged in due course, though.

An awful thought crossed my mind. What if any of the POs had access to the same as Andrew and others, in order to keep them quiet. Joint guilt. I'm only speculating, but I can't be the first person to think this surely?

What power would an in dividual officer have against that machine. They'd just be dismissed if they tried to go up sgainst the RF. Who'd listen to them.

What person would witness young girls being abused and not try to do something or ask to be reassigned?

I believe Andrew had a regular team who continued working with him over several years.

I've wouldn't like to guess why Thames Valley Police decided to arrest AMW on his birthday, but if not for tactical reasons it can probably be assumed whoever authorised the arrest thought it would be an appropriate birthday present for him.

Given that Andrew is being accused of financial crimes, if the materials he sent included information on currency dealings in US dollars the US can potentially claim jurisdiction on the basis of the currency of the crime.

See the 2015 FIFA scandal where non-US citizens engaged in financial crimes outside US territory but since the bribe was in US dollars, the Department of Justice (DOJ) claimed jurisdiction and eventually took down several high-ranking FIFA individuals.

Andrew might find himself extradited and facing Pam Bondi's DOJ prosecution team. And they will quite happily rip Andrew to shreds...without breaking a sweat.

I read in the past that they tried. When AMW stayed in NY, he was advised to stay at the Consulate. I read ages ago they took it further. But he refused and said he would stay where he wanted. And that he was only answerable to his mother.