Did Carole Middleton really “engineer” William and Catherine’s relationship?

[TheRealGossipGirl]

I came across a thread on Reddit where people were discussing the idea that Carole Middleton deliberately put Catherine in William’s path and essentially made the relationship happen. I don’t really see it that way. I also find that a lot of the more negative commentary about William and Catherine on Reddit tends to come from Harry and Meghan supporters, which makes it quite hard to have a fair or nuanced discussion there.

From what I’ve read, William had already announced he would be taking a gap year before starting at St Andrews, while Catherine was originally due to attend the University of Edinburgh. It’s often suggested that once William’s plans became public, Carole encouraged Catherine to take a gap year too and reapply to St Andrews so they would start in the same year. It’s also widely reported that people in Catherine’s circle were surprised by the sudden change, as she’d never previously shown interest in going to St Andrews.

I can accept that this could have happened. Carole may have encouraged Catherine to apply to St Andrews once she knew William would be there, as a way of putting her in his path. Even so, it was still a gamble with no guarantees - simply attending the same university doesn’t automatically lead to friendships or relationships.

In fact, by most accounts, William didn’t become friends with Catherine straight away, and they were both dating other people. It’s often reported that they began talking more after Catherine stepped in at a party to move on a girl who wouldn’t leave William alone, with his interest really sparked later at the now-famous charity fashion show where Catherine walked the catwalk.

That’s why I struggle with the idea that Carole “engineered” the entire relationship. At most, she could have encouraged a gap year and a different university choice - but she wasn’t there telling Catherine who to speak to, what to say, or how to create chemistry. A ten-year relationship doesn’t happen because of a mother’s planning alone. Ultimately, William had to feel something for Catherine, choose to be with her for a decade, and then decide to marry her.

I can imagine Carole offering fairly typical motherly advice - how to stay calm, what to say, and how not to come across as overly keen - but that’s very different from actively forcing a relationship to happen.

That’s just my take, but I’d be interested to hear what others think.

Yes it's known that she encouraged some of the things you mention.
I think she saw something special in her daughter though.

It’s just misogyny, isn’t it?

Misogyny?

The trope of the social-climber mother.

Yes, very Jane Austen.

I had friends at St Andrew’s in the same year as the two of them. It was openly known that Catherine had her sights set on William and made it her mission to get in with him at any cost (for example ditching friends to move in different circles). So rather than Carole orchestrating anything I’d say the idea was from Catherine herself. Fair play to her, she got what she wanted and it’s lasted.

There were hundreds of applications after William announced where he was going to uni. If either Catherine or Carol were hoping to get the outcome that happened they wouldn’t have been the only ones.

The way some people talk about Carol engineering the whole thing though makes her sound like some sort of genius mastermind! If she really has those sorts of powers MI5 should snap her up.

There are many mothers like Carole & if she did do any gentle nudging then KM was unusually (?) compliant. If she’d really executed a masterplan we’d see world domination from James…

I had heard she was more involved in Pippa’s love life & if so, maybe this is her greater triumph (?

Compared to some of the pushiness I’ve seen, Carole is at the lower slopes, an amateur :).

Her kids actually are all very nice from what I’ve heard from someone knows one of them. I think they’re a very decent family all round, if pretty ambitious, but they’re not alone there.

Absolutely.

We will never really know but there have been a lot of reports around this, like the one above.
Its not beyond the realm of possibilty and i think it does have a ring of truth to it.
Not just St Andrews but taking a gap year at the last minute and working in same charity project.
The see through dress at the fashion show etc.
She came from an ambitious family that have climbed up the social ladder, run a successful business, Kate may have had a crush on william and was desperate to meet him.
Her parents may have encouraged her to be in the same place at the same time.
Ive defintely known people who pick their circle of friends to help them get where they need to be-is or was Kate like that? Possibly.
Shes attractive and intelligent and has a wealthy supportive family so had a lot of advantages to help her.

Of course none of the above would have guaranteed her getting together with William but it would have stacked the odds and I think in all probabilty her (and her mum/dad/grandma ?) did delibrately align everything to give her the best possible opportunity to meet him and catch his eye.
Very Mrs Bennett!

Well Catherine dumping her old uni choice, swapping to his and taking a gap year to be in his cohort does read like someone had their eye set on him. It being the mother not the daughter does seem more likely given Catherine doesn’t see to has much drive, compared to her mum.

For Carol it might not have been completely “eyes on the prize” of getting Catherine to be the future queen, but more hope of being in the same set and the opportunities that would bring. It was pretty obvious that Catherine was an academically bright teen with little career drive, so “marrying well” or at least being friends with the sort of people who would help her get a career in something would be a good move.

Look, there will have been a rash of new applications to St Andrews as it would instantly have had added glamour/ prestige simply by William being there, and a magnet for other poshos to hang out together.

Thats as much as will have happened. Anything else will have been up to Kate and William.

How many students a year at St. Andrews?

If she was the careful planner then surely she'd have chosen somewhere to meet him with better odds.

I knew a couple of people at St Andrews at the time and they said there were a number of people desperate to meet PW, and there were all sorts of rumours about different people, not particularly Catherine.
They themselves hardly saw him, although they saw Catherine more, said she was lovely and chatty to everyone. They were quite surprised when the relationship was known.

I'd imagine that quite a few young women had 'their sights' on William then though?

Not only was he the heir to the throne, he was very handsome back then. Even if he hadn't been the future king, girls would have fancied him. Kate was just another pleasant, pretty young woman, and not from the social class William would have been expected to marry into.

So even if she did 'set her sights' on William, she will have faced stiff competition. You can maximise your chances of catching someone's eye, but you can't force them to fall in love and eventually marry and have three children with you.

Yes - women somehow controlling men's actions. As if William had no agency at all

That is not what misogyny means. "misogyny is the hatred, contempt, or strong dislike of women and girls, often showing up as prejudice, discrimination, or a belief that men are superior, and can range from subtle put-downs to serious violence, keeping women in lower social positions. It's more than just sexism; it's a deep-seated bias against femininity and women who don't conform to traditional roles, rooted in patriarchal systems where men hold power."

Agreed. It’s always “Kate changed unis, what a social climbing, grasping, manipulative mother she must have” and never “Kate changed unis, what a social climbing, grasping, manipulative father she must have”

its definitely unusual to dump a place at Edinburgh Uni, esp if it was for History of Art? as outside of Oxbridge there would be nowhere considered more prestigious. Lots of people decide to defer at the last moment and take a year out, but they defer their first choice uni, the offer they have already got in hand - which apparently was Edinburgh. It would have been quiet risky to turn that down and reapply to a new uni the next cycle.

This might have all been misreported though I guess, maybe she really liked Scotland and initially applied to both Edinburgh and St Andrews and then agreed a deferment with St Andrews.

So what? Surely most parents want their children to find a good match?

It's ridiculous and misogynistic. The Middletons as a pair probably did want their daughters mixing in certain circles - they are clearly socially ambitious people. There is no way Carol could have engineered a relationship and certainly not a marriage, though.

Yes I think this is more likely to be the case. None of the Middleton children seem to have the same drive as their parents, so maybe it's just a side effect of having parents who worked hard to give them everything. They you get to the stage of how do you ensure your children are also wealthy, and decide its by marrying well. However, afterwards, there were rumours that when they split up, Carole was inviting William round and keeping a bed free for them etc. so even though the original engineering I think was less William and more 'Go to Uni and find a rich husband' the aftermath from both Catherine and Carole was pushing to keep him interested and be the 'perfect Royal wife' ( which she is).

It could just be a rumour but I read somewhere that Kate had already booked her accommodation at Edinburgh and that she was reprimanded for backing out of her uni place so late in the day. But as I say this could be just a rumour!

What's not in doubt is that she did have a place there and turned it down in favour of St. Andrew's. Edinburgh is very popular among the privately educated English sorts who fail to get into Oxbridge. Both of Kate's younger siblings went there, though James didn't graduate, so it would have been an obvious choice for her. So my guess is she did indeed switch to St. Andrew's in the hope of meeting William. And good for her if that's what she wanted, and clearly it is what she wanted. As I said above, lots of other attractive, personable young women will have done exactly the same thing, but she was the one William chose.

What is misogynistic is how Carol is depicted as the pushy social climber and the perception that this is a terrible thing in a woman. Men are not negatively perceived for climbing the ranks, be that professionally or socially.

Seriously, Women are all moping about waiting to be chosen rather than proactively going for what we want? Who's the misogynist?
There was a rumour that 'the dress' was actually a skirt and she chose to wear it that way. Putting up with the 'waity Katy' schtick in the press showed a certain tenacity tbf.
History is full of people with sharp elbows and sharp minds out for the main chance, she and her offspring will want for nothing but anonymity.

I can see that angle, but I still do not feel that it is the correct word to use without explanation. Anyway - I have an issue with the following from another poster when I queried the misogyny usage "Yes - women somehow controlling men's actions. As if William had no agency at all" - that is not misogynistic. At least not my understanding of the word.