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The royal family

Did Carole Middleton really “engineer” William and Catherine’s relationship?

140 replies

TheRealGossipGirl · 31/01/2026 00:29

I came across a thread on Reddit where people were discussing the idea that Carole Middleton deliberately put Catherine in William’s path and essentially made the relationship happen. I don’t really see it that way. I also find that a lot of the more negative commentary about William and Catherine on Reddit tends to come from Harry and Meghan supporters, which makes it quite hard to have a fair or nuanced discussion there.

From what I’ve read, William had already announced he would be taking a gap year before starting at St Andrews, while Catherine was originally due to attend the University of Edinburgh. It’s often suggested that once William’s plans became public, Carole encouraged Catherine to take a gap year too and reapply to St Andrews so they would start in the same year. It’s also widely reported that people in Catherine’s circle were surprised by the sudden change, as she’d never previously shown interest in going to St Andrews.

I can accept that this could have happened. Carole may have encouraged Catherine to apply to St Andrews once she knew William would be there, as a way of putting her in his path. Even so, it was still a gamble with no guarantees - simply attending the same university doesn’t automatically lead to friendships or relationships.

In fact, by most accounts, William didn’t become friends with Catherine straight away, and they were both dating other people. It’s often reported that they began talking more after Catherine stepped in at a party to move on a girl who wouldn’t leave William alone, with his interest really sparked later at the now-famous charity fashion show where Catherine walked the catwalk.

That’s why I struggle with the idea that Carole “engineered” the entire relationship. At most, she could have encouraged a gap year and a different university choice - but she wasn’t there telling Catherine who to speak to, what to say, or how to create chemistry. A ten-year relationship doesn’t happen because of a mother’s planning alone. Ultimately, William had to feel something for Catherine, choose to be with her for a decade, and then decide to marry her.

I can imagine Carole offering fairly typical motherly advice - how to stay calm, what to say, and how not to come across as overly keen - but that’s very different from actively forcing a relationship to happen.

That’s just my take, but I’d be interested to hear what others think.

OP posts:
ThatAvidViewer · 31/01/2026 18:21

No, her mother had nothing to do with it — and it’s always the mother who gets that storyline anyway; her father is barely ever mentioned.

Catherine had already accepted her uni place before the deadline, and William didn’t make his choice public until after that deadline. So she literally couldn’t have known where he was going.

On top of that, Catherine spent almost her entire first year at uni dating Rupert Finch. It would be pretty strange if she’d chosen that university just to be near William, only to immediately start dating someone else. The timeline just doesn’t support that idea.

And the whole “social climbers” myth about her family is honestly just classism. Any girl who ended up with a prince — and her family by extension — would have been accused of the same thing. You almost never see the Middleton family anyway — maybe a couple of times, Wimbledon being one of them. The rest of the time they live a very private life.

Not to mention that people act like William didn’t have a choice in any of this, which is ridiculous.

And in the end, it really couldn’t have worked out much better for the royal family — she’s now one of the most popular royals.

MrsBridgetMcClusky · 31/01/2026 21:01

Carol, if you're reading this, please write a book on how to mould daughters. I'm having trouble getting my 7 year old to listen to me, and it sounds like you have the key. I don't want to make her life decisions when she's an adult, just get her to brush her teeth and get ready for bed when I ask. Much appreciated, Mrs Bridget McClusky (ironic, I know)

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 31/01/2026 21:07

Yep, it was the ole...
'Eye of newt and toe of frog, Wool of bat and tongue of dog' concoction.

quantumbutterfly · 31/01/2026 21:11

MrsBridgetMcClusky · 31/01/2026 21:01

Carol, if you're reading this, please write a book on how to mould daughters. I'm having trouble getting my 7 year old to listen to me, and it sounds like you have the key. I don't want to make her life decisions when she's an adult, just get her to brush her teeth and get ready for bed when I ask. Much appreciated, Mrs Bridget McClusky (ironic, I know)

boarding school.

MrsBridgetMcClusky · 31/01/2026 21:19

Also, Carole, I just noticed I misspelt your name. Please accept my apologies, it's just that I'm very tired after a full day of daughter wrangling.

@quantumbutterfly good point. Wages won't run to it though.

ThinkingAbout2026 · 31/01/2026 21:33

Lostsadandconfused · 31/01/2026 13:25

I just can’t see it, as a life that Catherine’s parents would have wanted for her. She is apparently quite shy and has worked very hard to overcome that. I don’t think Catherine herself would have had such ambitions for a very public life, scrutinised every second.

Her family are very close and there’s no doubt her parents love her a great deal. After what happened to Diana, what loving parent would want that for their child?

Pippa has the enviable life, married to a billionaire but free to be a SAHM to her kids

I use to hang around circles in the 90s who knew Sophie's family in Kent, apparently Sophie's mother advised her not to marry into the royal family. Given this was the period of Diana and Fergie blabbering about how bad the royal family was and peak tabloid gossip quite frankly I don't blame the woman. At least it all worked out in the end.

I get the impression that Catherine does not relish public life that much, I think she does her best and sure there are some elements that she enjoys but she does what's necessary, and not much more, like you say that is because of shyness.

Serenster · 01/02/2026 09:50

The news that William was going to study in St Andrews after a gap year (announced in August 2000) prompted a surge in application to St Andrews. This got lots of press at the time. See this January 2001 article from the Guardian:

St Andrews University has seen bar far the biggest increase in applications for degree courses among UK universities this year, signaling the 'Prince William effect'. Applications are up by 44% compared with last year according to figures from the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service.

Last year, the British Council reported a surge in interest from young women - particularly from the United States, after Prince William decided to enrol on an art history degree starting this autumn.

It’s perfectly possible that Catherine Middleton was one of this “surge of young women” applying to St Andrews in the hope of meeting a Prince. We will never know what was going on in her head. But it’s not like taking a gap year was an uncommon thing to do in 2000 (both her siblings did, for example).

I also think the fact Kate had a boyfriend for some of her gap year (Willem Marx) and then started dating Rupert Finch, a law student, shortly after she started at St Andrew’s tend to counter against the view she had set her sights on William. If that’s your strategy, having an existing boyfriend is a pretty dumb way of going about it!

Also it’s strange it’s Carole Middleton who’s cast as the Machiavelli figure in this story. Previously of course it was the fathers who were seen as desperate to manoeuvre their daughters into the orbit of the royal family, to increase their own status. But Carole grew up on a Coucil Estate of course. Clearly, she must be a ruthless social climber….

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/jan/26/highereducation.news

Prince William effect boosts applications to St Andrews

St Andrews University has seen bar far the biggest increase in applications for degree courses among UK universities this year, signaling the 'Prince William effect'. Applications are up by 44% compared with last year according to figures from the Univ...

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/jan/26/highereducation.news

Noodles1234 · 01/02/2026 20:54

Probably helped make the chances increase somewhat by little tweaks and changing Universities, like many families have tried before and will in the future with any suitable male / female. Still something else quite special has to initiate, hold and maintain a relationship then marriage so you can try and line up the skittles but it’s something else entirely from there on in.

Midmeddlecum · 01/02/2026 22:43

@IcedPurpleNonsense, I was at St Andrews in the 80s and it was crawling with “Yahs” and Oxbridge rejects!

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 02/02/2026 00:09

HeddaGarbled · 31/01/2026 00:35

It’s just misogyny, isn’t it?

No.

wordler · 02/02/2026 00:25

Midmeddlecum · 01/02/2026 22:43

@IcedPurpleNonsense, I was at St Andrews in the 80s and it was crawling with “Yahs” and Oxbridge rejects!

So was Reading in the 90s - there are quite a few public school Oxbridge rejects!

NunsOnTheRum · 02/02/2026 09:50

A good friend, let’s call him Tim, had the room next door to PW in 1st year accommodation which was a halls of residence. PW wasn’t there for fresher week. Tim said that he arrived at St Andrew’s knowing nobody whereas PW arrived with an established friendship group. PW was apparently friendly to Tim in a neighborly manner but was not looking to make new friends. So if Catherine did engineer being at St Andrew’s to be with PW she certainly wasn’t the only one who did that. Plenty of people in PW’s circles happened to be at St Andrew’s at the same time as PW, whether friend or acquaintance from same social circles. In fact Tim said it appeared that Catherine was PW’s only new friend acquired at St Andrews. Tim didn’t keep in touch with PW after St Andrew’s and wasn’t invited to the wedding. Tim blamed this on him having an American mother, which was apparently something PW used to rib him about.

Straightseams6943 · 02/02/2026 10:36

I absolutely detest the “pushy, meddling mother” narrative and think in this case it’s put about owing to a mix of snobbery and misogyny combined.

However, I was listening to Lady Anne Glenconner being interviewed by Tina Brown the other day, who said she knew the Middletons from holidays in Mustique, where William used to court Kate, and she said she thought that the girls were well brought up but described Carole as “a Mrs Bennet” which made me raise an eyebrow.

Foxypuppy · 02/02/2026 11:35

PinkPanther57 · 31/01/2026 11:57

Catherine would be far more clever & subtle than that, if she had designs.

I don't think walking half nude with a transparent skirt as a dress to caught William or mens attention is smart, much less subtle.

Wbeezer · 02/02/2026 11:58

A few points:
Perceptions of St Andrews seem to be different in Scotland and England. I’m Scottish, I had friends at St Andrews in the 80s, is always been regarded as a uni popular with posh people, English Scottish and international. This actually put a lot of Scottish students off applying even then as the confident posh kids tend to dominate the social scene at times.
St Andrews is not regarded as less prestigious and has always been equally hard to get a place at and harder for some subjects than Edinburgh.
Definitely not regarded as second best to Edinburgh in Scotland.
Some of the increased applications to St Andrews could have been that lots of people just hadn’t heard of it and looked it up after William’s announcement, it’s quite appealing on paper ( especially to Americans)due to lovely old buildings, perceived safety, beaches, quirky traditions. Not everyone wants big city attractions.
I say all this as someone who was a student in Edinburgh.

LookingThroughGlass · 02/02/2026 12:26

NunsOnTheRum · 02/02/2026 09:50

A good friend, let’s call him Tim, had the room next door to PW in 1st year accommodation which was a halls of residence. PW wasn’t there for fresher week. Tim said that he arrived at St Andrew’s knowing nobody whereas PW arrived with an established friendship group. PW was apparently friendly to Tim in a neighborly manner but was not looking to make new friends. So if Catherine did engineer being at St Andrew’s to be with PW she certainly wasn’t the only one who did that. Plenty of people in PW’s circles happened to be at St Andrew’s at the same time as PW, whether friend or acquaintance from same social circles. In fact Tim said it appeared that Catherine was PW’s only new friend acquired at St Andrews. Tim didn’t keep in touch with PW after St Andrew’s and wasn’t invited to the wedding. Tim blamed this on him having an American mother, which was apparently something PW used to rib him about.

In my experience (1990s, not St Andrews but another university with plenty of posh people) wealthy folk at university tend very much to have their own, closed circles. I don't mean there are no exceptions, but generally while they are friendly and kind to people like halls of residence neighbours, tutorial partners and so on, they socialise in their own groups in ways that would be out of reach to working/non-wealthy middle class people - going off at weekends to one anothers' country estates, going out to expensive clubs, restaurants and sporting events.

BellissimoGecko · 02/02/2026 13:52

Blueskiesnotgrey · 31/01/2026 10:24

its definitely unusual to dump a place at Edinburgh Uni, esp if it was for History of Art? as outside of Oxbridge there would be nowhere considered more prestigious. Lots of people decide to defer at the last moment and take a year out, but they defer their first choice uni, the offer they have already got in hand - which apparently was Edinburgh. It would have been quiet risky to turn that down and reapply to a new uni the next cycle.

This might have all been misreported though I guess, maybe she really liked Scotland and initially applied to both Edinburgh and St Andrews and then agreed a deferment with St Andrews.

Er, St Andrews is definitely on a par with Edinburgh! In fact it usually comes out better in surveys! This year St As is 4th in the Complete Uni Guide Uni League Tables 2926 and Edinburgh is only 18th…

BellissimoGecko · 02/02/2026 14:00

IcedPurple · 31/01/2026 10:51

But this was 2001.

At the time, St. Andrew's was not considered an obvious choice for posh English types in the way that Edinburgh was. Now, the two unis are considered fairly equal in terms of prestige and rankings, but that wasn't the case back then.

Absolute nonsense. St Andrews has always been prestigious and has attracted a lot of English and foreign students.

Millymolly99 · 02/02/2026 16:41

Carole Middleton was an air hostess living in a semi in the midlands and now she’s mother to the future queen

You have to hand it to her - she’s done well!

Chosendolphin · 04/02/2026 13:46

The issue is that Catherine also changed her gap year to match William one (same place also), despite being one year older, then changed her university to st Andrews, and her and sister Pippa were known as Wisteria sisters in their circles. I think Carole had a hand, indeed, in how she raised her daughters to chase nobles and rich men.

JSMill · 04/02/2026 14:14

Chosendolphin · 04/02/2026 13:46

The issue is that Catherine also changed her gap year to match William one (same place also), despite being one year older, then changed her university to st Andrews, and her and sister Pippa were known as Wisteria sisters in their circles. I think Carole had a hand, indeed, in how she raised her daughters to chase nobles and rich men.

Edited

She’s not one year older. She was born in January 1982 and W in June of that year. They would have been in the same school year.

PinkPanther57 · 04/02/2026 14:17

Chosendolphin · 04/02/2026 13:46

The issue is that Catherine also changed her gap year to match William one (same place also), despite being one year older, then changed her university to st Andrews, and her and sister Pippa were known as Wisteria sisters in their circles. I think Carole had a hand, indeed, in how she raised her daughters to chase nobles and rich men.

Edited

What’s interesting is both daughters seem to be so similar in mindset or compliant. That doesn’t always follow. Otherwise, there are plenty of socially ambitious mothers like CM.

BlueRose120 · 04/02/2026 14:21

AplineDaisies · 31/01/2026 00:34

Yes it's known that she encouraged some of the things you mention.
I think she saw something special in her daughter though.

What parent doesn't see something special in their daughter.

PinkPanther57 · 04/02/2026 14:25

BlueRose120 · 04/02/2026 14:21

What parent doesn't see something special in their daughter.

This comes straight from Crown with that cringe inducing vignette between Mum & daughter in the bedroom.

BlueRose120 · 04/02/2026 14:28

PinkPanther57 · 04/02/2026 14:25

This comes straight from Crown with that cringe inducing vignette between Mum & daughter in the bedroom.

I've never watched that rubbish 😅