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The royal family

Did Carole Middleton really “engineer” William and Catherine’s relationship?

140 replies

TheRealGossipGirl · 31/01/2026 00:29

I came across a thread on Reddit where people were discussing the idea that Carole Middleton deliberately put Catherine in William’s path and essentially made the relationship happen. I don’t really see it that way. I also find that a lot of the more negative commentary about William and Catherine on Reddit tends to come from Harry and Meghan supporters, which makes it quite hard to have a fair or nuanced discussion there.

From what I’ve read, William had already announced he would be taking a gap year before starting at St Andrews, while Catherine was originally due to attend the University of Edinburgh. It’s often suggested that once William’s plans became public, Carole encouraged Catherine to take a gap year too and reapply to St Andrews so they would start in the same year. It’s also widely reported that people in Catherine’s circle were surprised by the sudden change, as she’d never previously shown interest in going to St Andrews.

I can accept that this could have happened. Carole may have encouraged Catherine to apply to St Andrews once she knew William would be there, as a way of putting her in his path. Even so, it was still a gamble with no guarantees - simply attending the same university doesn’t automatically lead to friendships or relationships.

In fact, by most accounts, William didn’t become friends with Catherine straight away, and they were both dating other people. It’s often reported that they began talking more after Catherine stepped in at a party to move on a girl who wouldn’t leave William alone, with his interest really sparked later at the now-famous charity fashion show where Catherine walked the catwalk.

That’s why I struggle with the idea that Carole “engineered” the entire relationship. At most, she could have encouraged a gap year and a different university choice - but she wasn’t there telling Catherine who to speak to, what to say, or how to create chemistry. A ten-year relationship doesn’t happen because of a mother’s planning alone. Ultimately, William had to feel something for Catherine, choose to be with her for a decade, and then decide to marry her.

I can imagine Carole offering fairly typical motherly advice - how to stay calm, what to say, and how not to come across as overly keen - but that’s very different from actively forcing a relationship to happen.

That’s just my take, but I’d be interested to hear what others think.

OP posts:
fartotheleftside · 31/01/2026 10:42
  1. She coincidentally decided to take a gap year when it was announced that William was taking one. She also applied and went on to the exact same volunteer program in the exact same location he was going to (Bolivia).
  2. she changed unis to one much less prestigious and competitive than the one she was going to originally, coincidentally after it was announced where she was going
  3. she never pursued a career or anything for herself after uni, she hung around waiting for him to propose. At her interview for her only proper job at Jigsaw head office she said she would need the flexibility to take off at a moment’s notice due to her relationship with a high profile man.

whether this came from Kate or her parents, who knows. But Carole Middleton was an air hostess living in a semi in the midlands and now she’s mother to the future queen, so 🤷‍♀️

blondebombsite13 · 31/01/2026 10:45

Yes, I mean, from a young age Catherine was brought up to have the education, poise, lifestyle, skills, hobbies, manners which would make her attractive to William or similar upper class bachelor.

Carole then intentionally put Catherine, with all these traits, as close to William as she could get him.

Of course it was a huge gamble but no guarantee, but William probably wasn’t the only intended suitor. If not, by being in that circle she most likely would have bet someone else suitable.

She moulded her daughter into what she wanted her to be and put her in an environment where she thought she would do well.

I suppose most mothers do similar, albeit on a smaller scale.

PinkPanther57 · 31/01/2026 10:48

fartotheleftside · 31/01/2026 10:42

  1. She coincidentally decided to take a gap year when it was announced that William was taking one. She also applied and went on to the exact same volunteer program in the exact same location he was going to (Bolivia).
  2. she changed unis to one much less prestigious and competitive than the one she was going to originally, coincidentally after it was announced where she was going
  3. she never pursued a career or anything for herself after uni, she hung around waiting for him to propose. At her interview for her only proper job at Jigsaw head office she said she would need the flexibility to take off at a moment’s notice due to her relationship with a high profile man.

whether this came from Kate or her parents, who knows. But Carole Middleton was an air hostess living in a semi in the midlands and now she’s mother to the future queen, so 🤷‍♀️

Go Carole :)! Can she write a book?

A PP said St Andrews far less prestigious than Edinburgh - I think that’s debatable.

IcedPurple · 31/01/2026 10:51

PinkPanther57 · 31/01/2026 10:48

Go Carole :)! Can she write a book?

A PP said St Andrews far less prestigious than Edinburgh - I think that’s debatable.

But this was 2001.

At the time, St. Andrew's was not considered an obvious choice for posh English types in the way that Edinburgh was. Now, the two unis are considered fairly equal in terms of prestige and rankings, but that wasn't the case back then.

HuckleberryJam · 31/01/2026 10:53

I agree. Carole wasn't there at the university, so wouldn't have been able to engineer a relationship. Maybe she thought St A would be even more prestigious with a royal there so encouraged it for that reason.

CloakedInGucci · 31/01/2026 10:53

IcedPurple · 31/01/2026 10:33

It could just be a rumour but I read somewhere that Kate had already booked her accommodation at Edinburgh and that she was reprimanded for backing out of her uni place so late in the day. But as I say this could be just a rumour!

What's not in doubt is that she did have a place there and turned it down in favour of St. Andrew's. Edinburgh is very popular among the privately educated English sorts who fail to get into Oxbridge. Both of Kate's younger siblings went there, though James didn't graduate, so it would have been an obvious choice for her. So my guess is she did indeed switch to St. Andrew's in the hope of meeting William. And good for her if that's what she wanted, and clearly it is what she wanted. As I said above, lots of other attractive, personable young women will have done exactly the same thing, but she was the one William chose.

What do you mean “reprimanded”? Who by? People drop out of uni all the time, including before they actually start. No one is in any position to reprimand them.

PinkPanther57 · 31/01/2026 10:54

IcedPurple · 31/01/2026 10:51

But this was 2001.

At the time, St. Andrew's was not considered an obvious choice for posh English types in the way that Edinburgh was. Now, the two unis are considered fairly equal in terms of prestige and rankings, but that wasn't the case back then.

I don’t know, always popular with a super smart niche group & very rich Americans.

soupyspoon · 31/01/2026 10:55

Arranged or orchestrated marriages are common among many groups in our society, Asian families for example, no one bats an eye at that

Theres no way she (no one mentions her husband) could have orchestrated that t happen, its not possible under that system. They may have advised her to go to a certain place where it was more likely she make the right links, but thats as far as it was likely to go.

IcedPurple · 31/01/2026 10:56

CloakedInGucci · 31/01/2026 10:53

What do you mean “reprimanded”? Who by? People drop out of uni all the time, including before they actually start. No one is in any position to reprimand them.

Yes, that's why I say the story could be nonsense. But if, and I stress the 'if' it's true that she had accommodation in Edinburgh booked, then clearly she dropped out pretty late in the day. Which is totally fine, but, along with some other things, supports the theory that she did have her 'sights' on William. Which again is totally fine.

FuzzyWolf · 31/01/2026 11:01

Even if there is was a hope Kate might meet William, the likelihood of them meeting, getting on and marrying would have been incredibly low - even on the same course at the same university.

AreYouSureAskedNaomi · 31/01/2026 11:04

m00rfarm · 31/01/2026 10:15

That is not what misogyny means. "misogyny is the hatred, contempt, or strong dislike of women and girls, often showing up as prejudice, discrimination, or a belief that men are superior, and can range from subtle put-downs to serious violence, keeping women in lower social positions. It's more than just sexism; it's a deep-seated bias against femininity and women who don't conform to traditional roles, rooted in patriarchal systems where men hold power."

Good lord

Everyone knows what misogyny means

What is being discussed in this thread is just one of its many manifestations

MargaretThursday · 31/01/2026 11:06

IcedPurple · 31/01/2026 10:51

But this was 2001.

At the time, St. Andrew's was not considered an obvious choice for posh English types in the way that Edinburgh was. Now, the two unis are considered fairly equal in terms of prestige and rankings, but that wasn't the case back then.

I applied in the 90s.
St Andrews was definitely considered above Edinburgh where I was.
I suspect partially because it has colleges so it has the Oxbridge look, but it did have higher offer grades for my subject, so clearly was looking for high standards too.

That's not saying Edinburgh was considered poor, but it was a level down from St Andrews.

m00rfarm · 31/01/2026 11:07

AreYouSureAskedNaomi · 31/01/2026 11:04

Good lord

Everyone knows what misogyny means

What is being discussed in this thread is just one of its many manifestations

Is that misogyny at work?

I am allowed to query the usage of a word. Anyway. Thanks for your help.

mumofoneAloneandwell · 31/01/2026 11:11

I don’t see why her dad gets zero mention in this

I reckon both her parents wanted this match to happen and worked to get her there 🤷‍♀️

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 31/01/2026 11:12

How does one go about moulding their children into what they want them to be? I could socially engineer till the cows come home but surely Catherine had some say in it?

Aso saying that she conveniently took a gap year same time as he did. So did hundreds others I assume.

Fulmine · 31/01/2026 11:13

IcedPurple · 31/01/2026 10:51

But this was 2001.

At the time, St. Andrew's was not considered an obvious choice for posh English types in the way that Edinburgh was. Now, the two unis are considered fairly equal in terms of prestige and rankings, but that wasn't the case back then.

Not true. St Andrew's was definitely regarded as at least on a par with Edinburgh, if not a cut above for a number of reasons.

\

Fulmine · 31/01/2026 11:14

RudolphRNR · 31/01/2026 00:56

I had friends at St Andrew’s in the same year as the two of them. It was openly known that Catherine had her sights set on William and made it her mission to get in with him at any cost (for example ditching friends to move in different circles). So rather than Carole orchestrating anything I’d say the idea was from Catherine herself. Fair play to her, she got what she wanted and it’s lasted.

Edited

"Openly known" sounds more like bitchy gossip.

LightYearsAgo · 31/01/2026 11:20

MargaretThursday · 31/01/2026 11:06

I applied in the 90s.
St Andrews was definitely considered above Edinburgh where I was.
I suspect partially because it has colleges so it has the Oxbridge look, but it did have higher offer grades for my subject, so clearly was looking for high standards too.

That's not saying Edinburgh was considered poor, but it was a level down from St Andrews.

I went to uni in the 80s and my perception was that St Andrews was above Edinburgh then too

I don't see what the problem is even if the family did engineer things, they appear to have a happy marriage and a lovely children, no one forced William to marry her, he wasn't already earmarked for someone else.Couples have to meet somehow

Dollymylove · 31/01/2026 11:24

I dont suppose the fact that they fell in love and appear to have a happy marriage (unlike PWs parents) has anything to do with it?
William knew the state of his parents marriage and he obviously decided he would avoid their mistakes. Don't forget that they had a long relationship before they actually married. Either of them could have walked away, but they didnt!!

user2848502016 · 31/01/2026 11:30

I know someone who was in St Andrews in her first year when William and Kate were in 3rd year. She saw William once from a distance.
They didn’t move in the same circles at all, so to make out that Kate meeting William was some kind of Cinderella story is ridiculous, her parents are millionaires and she had a privileged upbringing and had access to the same circle as William, so that is one hurdle cleared.

Maybe she did change her mind about Edinburgh because of the chance of meeting William, maybe she did have a massive crush on him, lots of girls did at that time. What Kate or her mother couldn’t control was William actually being interested and the relationship lasting.

Laiste · 31/01/2026 11:41

However it came to be it was a good match, and i think Catherine is doing a great job.

I remember when Prince George was young and it was reported about Carole having the family round to theirs. A house full of 'Future Kings' ! 🤣

I can picture my DH would have great fun with it ... ''Love! I can't move for all these bloody future kings!''

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 31/01/2026 11:45

blondebombsite13 · 31/01/2026 10:45

Yes, I mean, from a young age Catherine was brought up to have the education, poise, lifestyle, skills, hobbies, manners which would make her attractive to William or similar upper class bachelor.

Carole then intentionally put Catherine, with all these traits, as close to William as she could get him.

Of course it was a huge gamble but no guarantee, but William probably wasn’t the only intended suitor. If not, by being in that circle she most likely would have bet someone else suitable.

She moulded her daughter into what she wanted her to be and put her in an environment where she thought she would do well.

I suppose most mothers do similar, albeit on a smaller scale.

I suppose most mothers do similar, albeit on a smaller scale.

Er…no. 😂

Most mothers accept their daughters are individuals not clones of themselves to be “moulded”.

TheActualQueen · 31/01/2026 11:45

Jesus Christ

PinkPanther57 · 31/01/2026 11:46

FuzzyWolf · 31/01/2026 11:01

Even if there is was a hope Kate might meet William, the likelihood of them meeting, getting on and marrying would have been incredibly low - even on the same course at the same university.

Agree although there are those who really go to town on making it happen. The Crown was hilarious on this.

PinkPanther57 · 31/01/2026 11:48

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 31/01/2026 11:45

I suppose most mothers do similar, albeit on a smaller scale.

Er…no. 😂

Most mothers accept their daughters are individuals not clones of themselves to be “moulded”.

Aren’t daughters less compliant these days?

The guys my Granny wanted me to date I instantly loathed.