New series on the royals with Dimbleby

[MeNotMyselfAndI]

Anyone watching? Just watched Ep 2 on royal finances - it’s unbelievable. Greedy greedy fuckers! 🤬

I haven't watched it but couldn't agree more with your sentiment. They are greedy self preservationists, bleeding every drop of wealth and privilege from their positions. They are also constantly mired in scandal, much of it utterly shameful. Why anyone lauds them or considers them to be role models, god only knows.

I thought I was fairly well informed about the extent of their wealth, their tax dodging, abuse of their Duchies and the luxury of their sovereign grant - but it’s so so so much worse than I thought it was. It’s incredible. And that wanker Osborne had the audacity to compare it to the NHS in terms of cost 🤬. It’s insane!

Yes, I've watched the first two and thought them very well done

Especially interesting were those rolled out to tout the RF line and Dimbleby's measured responses - as when George Osborne tried to pretend they Sovereign Grant could be cut
Did he really not expect to be challenged on nonsense like this?

And next week's on the "image" sounds good ...

Agreed, I thought they were both very good. I thought Dimbleby was a toadying friend of Charles, but apparently that’s the other brother - will make for interesting Christmas dinner discussions 😂

I watched it too and found it interesting but I was left with a lot of questions some of which relate to thinking about things differently.

A good example is if I owned a building that I don’t live in and rented it out to the NHS why is it wrong to expect the NHS to pay me rent, pay the utilities and maintain it?

I have no issue with a member of the RF leasing a property and being responsible for maintaining it. Why should they pay rent on top? Yes, the lease should be market rate but do other people who lease property also pay rent? Shared ownership is an exception.

I do think the RF, including the Dutchy’s, should be required to pay tax rather than it being voluntary. However, just like any other person, organisation etc. they should be allowed to use legal tax avoidance measures. Remember the Grosvenor Estate is c£9 Billion but the Duke of Westminster paid virtually no IHT due to the way they lawfully structured their Trust.

I do think we need a clearer separation between Crown Estates and personal belongings. The Dutchy’s are unusual but, if they paid tax, I think work. I know not everyone agrees with me. The question is should there also be the sovereign grant or should the Dutchy’s fund the RF public duties?

I don’t believe anyone is above the law so all laws should apply to the RF equally.

I do think a rebalancing and some clarity would be beneficial but I don’t believe we should strip the RF of all their wealth, I don’t think it’s feasible or proportionate.

I am a royalist but don’t believe the RF are above criticism. I think they are custodians of a lot of our treasures e.g Crown Jewels, paintings etc. I certainly think there are downside, like the constant media presence, that no amount of money can compensate for.

If we did become a republic I would want a blanket ban on anyone posting stories, photos or videos etc of the RF on either mainstream or social media. This would be the only way to revert their anonymity to that of the man in the street.

Edited for clarity.

The sums involved are wild - I think that’s part of the problem. They’re charging public services millions for renting their properties on Duchy land - that’s not justifiable and is just out and out greed. Same with IHT - they’re not using legal methods to get out of it (no one should be allowed to do that anyway but that’s a whole other issue), they simply write into law that they don’t pay. The queen interfered in 160 laws that affected her own personal wealth - that’s absolutely incredible.

So much of it comes across as out and out greed - and while public services are on their knees they continue to cream off an ever larger grant to fund their already wildly extravagant lifestyle. It’s incredible that they get away with it.

Only seen episode 2 and right at the beginning Dimbleby said Charles saved hundreds of millions in iht when the queen died. I know they are exempt from iht but hundreds of millions is just bloody disgusting. They were also totting up the values of art, jewelry etc I was under the impression most of that belonged to the state, not the monarch.
I am appalled that the head of the army charges enormous amounts for them to train on HIS land, HIS harbour/coastline, HIS airfield ffs.
I always loved the queen, strong dislike of Charles and in 2 minds about William. I think the queen now looks grabby and dishonest.
I am surprised how little has been said about it, Dimbleby has always been connected to them, has there been a falling out?

I also don’t get the drama with leased properties not paying rent. Vast majority of flats and many houses are leasehold and once you buy the lease you don’t pay rent . You pay maintenance perhaps a service charge too.
also don’t see issue with charging rent for their properties. It’s good management. Do generally abit 🤔about these revelations

I’ve only seen the finances programme. But this was all widely-known stuff. I mean, predictably crazy sums of money involved, and an apparently entirely genuine sense thst they’re entitled to this insane wealth because of their position and ‘service’, but presumably if you’re the kind of lowgrade loon who camps put on royal wedding/coronation routes waving flags and collective commemorative teatowels, you think it’s fine.

Because private businesses renting property out also have responsibilities, to pay corporation tax and CGT for a start. The Royals don't. What justification is there for that if they have to charge market rent?

Thell all be there handing out presents and selection boxes to the children of a billionnaire on Christmas day!

I thought Dimbleby was a toadying friend of Charles, but apparently that’s the other brother

Yes, I had to do a mental shuffle on that myself, @MeNotMyselfAndI, though I did smile when David was asked if he was in favour of a RF and replied he's "in favour of documentaries about the RF"

Also interested to see Boris's illegal proroguing of parliament being raised and the Queens non-reaction to it, with the flaccid answers amounting to nothing more than "she wouldn't have known/understood".
"They didn't know" does a lot of heavy lifting with the RF, but this from someone who's supposed to protect us from this sort of thing and has wall to wall advisers??

Not good enough ...

They are very odd people. There is absolutely no way any sort of selection box is eaten (far too risky with odd people around). They will all get ditched in the bin.
I think these union jack hat people want to keep the children young forever, I think it was last year George was handed a stuffed toy! Give him his due, he accepted with grace.

Thanks for this. I didn’t spot it so will download to watch over the holidays.

I bought a leasehold flat years ago for a few hundreds thousand. Or rather the mortgage company bought most of it 😁. I pay service charge (a few thousand p.a. And ground/peppercorn rent, £200 or some such per annum). Think that’s fairly standard. Certainly in London.

I agree they should pay corporation tax and CGT then the renting out to the Army, NHS etc. becomes a perfectly reasonable business approach.

I imagine the information provided to the late Queen likely included legal advice. As a non-lawyer you usually follow the legal advice given.

Time to wheel out the kids in their knee socks and short pants/cute dress to deflect. 😊

This makes perfect sense, Harassedevictee, but unfortunately doesn't chime with the insistence that a function of the monarchy is to "save us" from parliament going rogue

So with the "moral examples" somewhat frayed, the Head of the Church a bit pointless in a society where few bother with it and now this, some of us are left wondering what the point of them really is

Time to wheel out the kids in their knee socks and short pants/cute dress to deflect

Edited to add any time now, @ocool; Together at Christmas - which I actually really enjoy - is on the 24th

I have just watched the first two episodes (I presume Ep3 hasn't dropped yet?)

OMG it's all gobsmacking, from the illegal prorogation to the finances. So good to watch this with someone like Dimbleby who has gravitas and asks the right questions in a polite way.

I nearly threw something at the telly when George Osborne came on and tried to justify why he pushed for the SG. As opposed to a yearly debate on the Royals and value for money.

Interesting to see Valentine Low on there who really was not such a royalist as I imagined.

The second episode on Finances was something else, it really was.

The problem was parliament on all sides were going rogue because they didn’t agree with the referendum result. I personally was appalled by everyone’s behaviour. Proroguing put everything on hold for a general election. This put it back to the electorate.

The real person to blame is David Cameron. He fucked up by not taking the referendum seriously. He didn’t plan for an out vote.

Had the gmt of the day done their homework before launching the referendum then the arguments for and against would have had more fact based substance.

The late Queen had very little choice based on the legal advice from her government.

Where does one find it to watch it?

The late Queen had very little choice based on the legal advice from her government

I think most of us understand this argument, @Harassedevictee, but my real question is why, therefore, it's so often insisted that an important aspect of having a monarchy at all is to protect us from overreaching governments

Either this is an illusion or it isn't, but as things stand it's hard to see what actual purpose the monarchy has, and if they're purely ceremonial why they're allowed to exercise such massive influence

BBC iPlayer

Thank you

The sums are enormous! If you haven’t watched it you should. As PP said it absolutely shows the queen as being unbelievably grabby and only backed down on being so grabby when the Windsor fire happened and the public were livid at being made to pay for the damage. There is simply no comparison between this and “ordinary” businesses.