Andrew to lose Duke of York title (part 2)

[elprup]

I thought I’d start a new thread as the previous one is full!

Here’s the first thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/5429027-andrew-to-lose-duke-of-york-title?page=1

I see from the previous thread that Fergie is now plain old sarahferguson15 on Instagram. Can anyone recall what she was before?

I am pretty sure that was her IG name all along.

I’ve been reflecting on all the steps the late QE2 and KC3 haven’t taken since all this kicked off. Even now, Charles has let Andrew dictate what happens. Who’s running the show here? Is this family just a massive grifting opportunity for a family of four siblings? I don’t think that seems fair to Anne, or maybe Edward. To ensure he’s a reliable custodian of the monarchy William is going to take drastic measures. Charles’s generation seem like an anachronism. I guess he hasn’t exactly had time to set a tone given how long his mum reigned - but really, his inability to get a grip (let his advisors tell him how to take a stand) is pitiful.

I couldn’t keep up with the previous thread!

I’m thinking that The Crown Estate’s lease signed with Andrew was supposedly very tightly drawn up. While this obviously benefits Andrew at present, as long as he pays the rent and pays for maintenance of the building and grounds, there’s also a danger for him hidden in there.

That danger is the source of the money that Andrew is using to pay the rent. There is also the related issue of whether he is behaving or has behaved criminally whilst being in residence there.

Andrew may never face justice for abusing trafficked girls and women, but he has now exposed himself to criminal investigations under the Data Protection Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act (POCA).

The Crown Estate as a landlord has a duty under POCA to investigate the source of Andrew’s money, and to establish that Andrew’s source of wealth originates legally from non-dodgy sources. And good luck with that one, Crown Estate Chairman Ric Lewis.

Thanks for new thread OP

I’ve been reflecting on all the steps the late QE2 and KC3 haven’t taken since all this kicked off

The modus operandi seems to be to stick their heads in the sand and hope it all goes away. The PR advisers, courtiers, private secretaries are just paid to work really really hard to keep anything unsavoury from the general public. I honestly think that's their job.

It cannot continue like it is. QE2 and her 70 year reign is finished. We are in different waters now.

I still can’t believe SF took her dds to the US to visit JE after his release from prison.

Yep.

I’d just like to reiterate what I said in the other thread.

It’s appalling that it’s taken William (and the government) to put pressure on Charles to finally address the issue with Andrew. And even then, the result was only to persuade him not to use his titles, rather than to actually withdraw them (and reportedly, William isn’t satisfied with this outcome). Now we’re hearing that William plans to ban Andrew from all aspects of public royal life once he becomes King.

The “Andrew problem” should have been dealt with during Elizabeth’s and Charles’s reigns. It shouldn’t be left for William to clean up. It just underlines how weak-willed and pathetic both Charles and TLQ have been on this issue.

I'm curious as to who in the government was putting pressure on the RF about this. Is there a protocol to follow in these cases, was it a specific party, a few individuals...? I would love to know

I think it was a mistake to allow Andrew to release his own statement. It should have come from the palace.

It’s absolutely pathetic.

After all this time surely someone could have predicted what he would write. He needed to show contrition at least.

Yes. It seems they are incapable of reining him in. He's still controlling the situation.

I don't think he is controlling the situation as much as someone in the decision making process seems unable to grasp that Andrew will never do the right thing, will never apologise and genuinely believes he is honourable. They keep giving him chances to atone and he keeps pouring more fuel on the fire instead.

FTR I do think that this inability to grasp exactly how entitled and venial he is lies at the root of why they took so long to cast him out. I've known families irl who have really struggled to come to terms with what a family member has done and struggled to know how to deal with them going forward. And that is with an actual criminal conviction.

I'm not excusing the delay, but I do understand it. Pretty sure though that William is done with his Uncle.

Well, when William goes hard-line on Andrew, Andrew's statement will be brought up and people will agree with William.

I'm wondering if Fergie is getting a a huge monthly allowance for those corgis as per HMTLQ and that is funding that household.

Yes, I think a formal statement from the Palace would have been better, and would have included some regrets/contrition which presumably someone expected Andrew to include.

I also think they should update the Royal Family website very soon - in fact, I think they should have done it before the statement.

He could have been trusted to show contrition without getting legal approval: there’s a fine one between not accepting guilt and regretting the consequences of your actions.

I think we’re seeing a complete lack of leadership and moral fiber at the moment. I think people who work for the RF are too used to knowing what the late Queen wanted and stood for and were able to preempt her almost. Charles isn’t showing leadership - I mean, he could say that not going scorched earth is a form of leadership, a forgiving one. But what does that say to victims of sexual abuse and trafficking? They need leadership more than Andrew does. Right now, their representation has been left to the one man who caused all this in the first place. It’s still all about him, at their expense.

One down! How many to go now?

Dirty pig. If course he had sex with her and paid her 12 million to shut up.

I think we’re seeing a complete lack of leadership and moral fiber at the moment. I think people who work for the RF are too used to knowing what the late Queen wanted and stood for and were able to preempt her almost. Charles isn’t showing leadership - I mean, he could say that not going scorched earth is a form of leadership, a forgiving one. But what does that say to victims of sexual abuse and trafficking?

What makes you think either Charles or Andrew would care about those victims, @canklesmctacotits?

If there was ever any uncertainty that their only concern is their own self-preservation I doubt there's much left now, and given his own history how on earth could Charles blast his brother for befriending a known paedophile?

He'd be laughed at, and rightly so

I think they are and if Fergie can't make the C Allowance go round they're going to have to eat the corgis and no waste meat in the bin. I suppose I'll be in trouble for writing that.

I'd say what about the boxing day shoot - there's a lot of venison on a deer - but now it's being said A&F won't be there for Christmas, so ...

Charles is just the current incumbent. The machinery of monarchy is vested in ensuring the endurance of the institution. I don’t think Charles - certainly not Andrew - has absolute power. He can set a tone, get away with a lot, but should he ever jeopardize the existence of the institution manoeuvres would take place to have him replaced by William. I don’t think Charles is quite there yet, but he’s not far off by harbouring, or at least keeping within the fold, Andrew. As it stands, I think he stands at the head of an institution that is looking weak, scandal-ridden, sordid, disreputable by association. William really does need to cut the cord between the old monarchy and a new one. As far as we know, so far the people don’t have much to throw at William or his wife, certainly nothing like Andrew’s or Fergie’s ugly business. He can be brutal, cut these people out and move the institution forward.

The RF Brand is damaged. Long live the Brand. Come what may.

I think a lot of stuff is going to come out about Eugenie and Beatrice. I have older teens and honestly they are the most black and white morally people I know - I can not imagine my children being down with the trips that the York girls were.

Another very insightful post, *canklesmctacotits; *the only thing I'm a bit "hmm" about is all these changes so many hope William will make, but time will tell