Andrew to lose Duke of York title

[Flixon]

News banner from the Torygraph saying Andrew and Sarah are losing their titles. They will be ‘put into Abeyance’ Andrew also to lose the Order of the Garter. Sarah will be known as Sarah Ferguson, he retains ‘Prince’ as he is the son of HM QE2.

bloody good job !

There’s no way William could deal with the firestorm of stripping Harry’s kids but not Beatrice and Eugenie

It would be bad optics.

I don’t think William will be happy about removing his cousins titles, but needs must. I do think think he will try and soften the blow by giving them some other title- like ‘Lady’

The only other option, would be for the girls to become working royals. Which I can’t see happening.

I think he’ll do it as part of a “slimming down the monarchy” exercise, much like Queen Margrethe of Denmark did with her grandchildren through Joachim (the Danish spare). Now that other royal families have taken similar steps, and Charles has already set a precedent by stripping Andrew of his titles, I think William will feel even more inclined to follow suit.

The real question is how far he’ll go. I suspect he may have originally intended it just for Harry’s children, following the Danish model, but after H&M’s accusations that their children were denied princely titles because of their skin colour, William might opt for a blanket rule: no Prince or Princess titles for anyone who isn’t a direct child or heir of the reigning monarch.

IWilliam will remove by letters patent, the title of Prince and Princess for
-Andrew
-Beatrice and Eugenie ( but I think he will soften the blow by making them and their husbands Lady and Sir)
-Harry
-Archie and Lili

Would be a very risky move.

Once you introduce the idea that meritocracy or public opinion should influence titles and the line of succession, you have pretty much killed the entire concept of a Royal Family.

Maybe a better plan would be to change things going forward?

It doesn't remove the LoS at all, it just affects titles. And meritocracy and public opinion also has nothing to do with it. It's all just about who are the direct heirs.

Andrew hasn't lost his place in the LoS. That's a bit of a spurious argument IMO.

It's exactly what people say they want - a slimmed down Monarchy without all the "hangers on".

So if we don't count the HRH's in the late Queen's generation, the current HRH users are:

The Prince and Princess of Wales
Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie

Then in the next one the Royal titles are

Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis
Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet

After that only the Wales' children's children will have a royal title under the current rules.

Maybe they need to think about when the titles get given and restrict them to a direct line somehow?

I think a combination of "going forward" and what @EmpressSisi described will be exactly what William may do.

It has been done before (KG5 letters patent & the Danish model). I think it depends on the timescale as well. If he accedes the throne within the next 10yrs he might be a bit more cautious, after that I think he'll be more forceful with it.

But none of those people are working royals, so whether or not they have titles doesn't impact the slimming down of the monarchy.

What would be the point?

I don’t think it’s a meritocracy, as Beatrice and Eugenie have always kept their heads down and are known to be very polite but I still think they will be stripped.

It will come down to- who is a working Royal. That in part will be a cover for Harry, because removing his title is also to try and save the face of brand RF- Which Harry has been pissing all over for years.

I don’t think it would make much difference, really. Everyone would still retain their place in the line of succession and any peerages or other titles already granted. For example, Prince Edward would simply be known as the Duke of Edinburgh (as he often is already), and Archie would start using the title Earl of Dumbarton. That’s essentially how the Danish royals handled it (Prince Joachim’s children went from being Princes and Princess to Counts and Countess of Monpezat, without losing their place in the line of succession).

The only ones who’d really lose out are the girls. Anne wouldn’t care in the slightest, as she’s never been one for fuss or titles, and Lili’s young enough not to understand the implications if it’s done soon enough. The only ones who might truly be bothered are the York sisters, and I suspect Andrew would take it harder than they would. He’d probably be more upset at seeing them as Mrs Brooksbank and Mrs Mapelli-Mozzi than at the loss of their “Princess” titles.

It does- because it’s how the Monarchy is viewed.

When you see the title of Prince and Princess- you associate them with the institution. If they had their title removed, they're just family members.

Andrew hasn’t worked for 5 years as a working royal, but his titles associate him with the institution- which is intolerable now.

We all know the Monarchy is to be slimmed down.

Do we? We've been hearing this for years. Other than personal choices made by Edward and Anne about their respective children (made when slimming down wasn't the latest buzz phrase), Harry leaving, and Andrew disgracing himself, I haven't seen much evidence of Charles actually doing any proactive slimming down.

Why haven't the late queen's cousins been honourably retired for instance?

And why is the SG going up by 54% if the monarchy it's paying for is going to be so much smaller?

I think thats what he should do. It makes sense and it needs to be a proper rule not an 'Oh we probably wont use them' fudge that we have now. I think Charles should do it, while the Wales children are young enough not to meet partners/have children etc as it will affect Charlotte and Louis potential children. Or just Louis, as Charlotte doesn't have the right anyway under the current rules, even though shes higher up in the LOS.

I agree with you. I thought at the time it was a fatuous, ridiculous question from an interviewer who dragged down the occasion, and demeaned the interviewees, himself, and the viewing public by turning it into a syrupy tv ‘moment’.

I’d find it an impertinent question if asked of me and a new fiancé. ‘And very much in love?’

‘Smarmy fucker’, I’d be thinking, and probably reply something sarcastic like ‘no we obviously hate each other’s guts’ which Charles couldn’t do.

The engagement interviewer could simply have said, ‘I’m so pleased to see that you both are very happy.’

Who was he anyway? A BBC luvvie?

Andrew would take it harder than they would. He’d probably be more upset at seeing them as Mrs Brooksbank and Mrs Mapelli-Mozzi than at the loss of their “Princess” titles.

I agree. When Eugenie got married she had a jacket with Mrs Brooksbank on the back, so I doubt she's bothered about being a princess.

However, I don't really see the point of it, even if it's what Denmark did.

Is it optics? Get rid of titles, keep the increasing amount of money, and hope the former makes people forget about the latter.

IMO only working Royals should have titles.

Trigger warning: sexual abuse, suicide.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/15/prince-andrew-virginia-giuffre-abuse-epstein-maxwell

This is a heartbreaking account. Of course the royals are going to try to distance themselves from Andrew.

I believe that the off the scale level of hatred for Megan Markle is a distraction job too, aided by the right wing press. Remember that Ghislane Maxwell is the daughter of deceased media owner Robert Maxwell.

Reduce the money too. We should go back to the Civil List, where they were paid according to the work they did. There are fewer of them, half of them are doing very little, so why is their money increasing? Both Charles and William have huge incomes from the murky as fuck Duchies.

Yes I’m looking forward to what Andrew Lownie finds out about Soho House and the royal connections, he’s definitely on the case, as for Harry and Meghan this is just things that we know about and the company they keep

Bullying claims from both sides of the Atlantic
Tyler Perry, godfather to one of their children a rumoured sexual predator for years, who has just recently been sued
Accepting their Californian House from a highly controversial billionaire stranger.
African Parks, associated with a charity that its rangers has been accused of heinous crimes of rape and torture, Harry completely silent
The Sentebale charity scandal
Accepting hospitality from Nigeria and Columbia whose regimes are dubious at best where they also accepted hospitality from corrupt individuals, wanted for money laundering and fraud.

@SumUp eh? Robert Maxwell was Chairman of Mirror Group. Definitely not RW press.

Criticism is not hatred. And any criticism I have on H&M is based on their behaviour and the interviews/documentaries/podcasts/statements they chose to release.

And why being that up in this thread???

Plenty of people in the UK have hereditary titles without being members of the RF. There is no reason that they should have any significance or value

It has always been reported that it was Andrew's pride in fathering the only "blood princesses " of their generation that made it tricky to remove their security and titles. The first is already gone so maybe the second will follow?

Incidentally he is wrong anyway. Louise is technically a blood Princess but, having been brought up by sensible parents, she opted to not use the title.

And as an aside "blood Princess" is a terrible expression, makes them sound like vampires.

We're talking about titles directly associated with the RF, I'm sorry, I thought that was obvious.

There's a massive difference between a Dukedom and a Royal Dukedom.

Exactly. William wont do anything, because the only people affected after that are his own kids and grandkids. He is all in on the Monarchy and their right to rule. If he was that desperate for them to have a 'normal' upbringing he'd get his dad to change the entitlement so they aren't working Royals. A lot of heavy lifting is going into 'William will do this and that'; when all he seems to have done so far is say how little he is planning on doing.

Working royals, apart from the King and Heir, only receive expenses for work they do on behalf of the King. Charkes is probably also funding other things but that doesn't come from the Sovereign Grant but from his personal funds.

The reason it keeps going up is because of how the government of the day set it up. They receive a percentage of the tax paid and if the tax amount goes up so does the percentage.

I'm not saying it doesn't need looking at just that its helpful to work from facts when seeking change.