What will happen to Princess Charlotte’s future family?

[VelvetAndPVC]

The thread about Peter Philips’ second engagement has got me thinking and now I have a question for you royal experts.

Now that the latest Letter Patent has placed Princess Charlotte ahead of Prince Louis in the LoS, what will happen when Princess Charlotte marries? Being a female and additionally not the immediate heir, there is a statistical likelihood she will be the first of the Wales children to marry. Will her husband likely receive a title and thus will their children receive titles? According to tradition this shouldn’t happen and Princess Charlotte’s future husband and children, as was in the case of Princess Anne, should be title-less because usually the husband of a female Royal doesn’t automatically receive a title.

Princess Anne was always ranked behind her three brothers on the LoS but this time around things are different and Princess Charlotte and any future children will rank higher than Prince Louis and his future children. It is expected that Prince Louis’ wife would receive a Duchess title and their children Prince and Princess titles (assuming, sadly, that by the time any of the Wales’ children are ready for marriage it is quite likely their father would be King).

So will there be any change for Princess Charlotte’s husband? Their first child is likely to be 3rd in line to the throne. And to have a 3rd in line without a title, would that be awkward?

Well Harry and Meghan have titles and their children are Prince and Princess - Charlotte is most comparable to Harry in terms of position. It’s a bit strange really because obviously H&M have requested the prince and princess titles for their children, where it seems like other royals ask for their children not to be titled, so I think it will be up to Charlotte what happens although I suspect she won’t be desperate to hang on to titles.

I would have thought that her children can receive titles without her husband having one. Princess Anne refused titles for Zara and Peter but they could have had one despite Mark Philips not having a title.

Isnt it all up to the monarch?

With the talk of a slimmed down family, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were changed to only the descendants of the direct line (so George’s children) would be HRH Prince(ss) and Charlotte and Louis’ children are titleless. That’s what I’d do if I were in charge and the way a lot of European monarchies work.

Anne’s children were never eligible for Prince/Princess titles because they pass down the male line. Their father could have been given a title to make them Lord/Lady, but the big titles are still in the male line.

I don't think order of the LOS affects titles. If she marries (a man!) her future husband will probably be offered a title if he doesn't already have one. If he declines or isn't offered one, she will be like Princess Eugenie who is styled "Princess Eugenie of York, Mrs Jack Brooksbank".

Zara and Peter could have had a title though, because the Queen offered Anne a courtesy title for them which she declined. So William would be likely to offer the same to Charlotte, I’d have thought 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree, the Wales family present themselves as relatively down to earth so I can’t see Princess Charlotte as likely to demand an exception made for titles to be granted. But why should Prince Louis’ family then be ranked higher through titles when they will rank lower in LoS?

And if anything was to happen to Prince George and he not produce an heir, what effect could it have on the future of the monarchy if an untitled person (Princess Charlotte’s first child) was then direct heir to the throne?

Grandchildren of the monarch are styled Prince and Princess so Charlotte and Louis' children could be styled by William if they wanted.

This is why Harry and Meghan's children weren't Prince/Princess until Charles became King.

If George has no children (pretty sure them's the roolz though!), Charlotte's first horn will presumably be styled with a title.

The Queen offered Mark Philips a title, but he refused. Also The Queen offered titles for their children, also refused.

Had he taken a title then automatically the children would have the titles that goes with which ever title Mark would have been given.

In the same way Edward and Sophie refused Prince/Princess for their children, instead using the Lord/Lady that came from Edward being an Earl.

You make the assumption that Charlotte will be heterosexual, that she will marry a man, that she will want to have children, and that she will be able to have children.

What happens if the main royals are gay or infertile or atheist? It's something I've wondered for years. What would happen if William or his children decided to ditch Christianity and become Buddhist?

I think that the King at the time could consider allowing children born through surrogacy to be added to the LoS.
Or if George doesn’t want kids then the King might ask at least Charlotte’s older child to have a title as they will ascend the throne

But what if George is infertile, Charlotte is a lesbian with no interest in having children, and Louis also didn't want to have children? I guess one of them would be forced to have an heir and a spare.

Would they consider allowing adopted children before risking a Sussex monarch ?

I think it'll depend entirely on the public mood at the time, and also what the monarchy is doing at the time in terms of working royals and non-working royals.

Princess Anne, and Princess Alexandra before her, was offered a title for her husband and for her children. Both declined.

If Charlotte is a working royal, the family know George has no plans to marry, and Charlotte's children are likely to be the heirs then they'll be titled. Equally if George is already married and has 5 kids then they likely won't be, and Louis children would follow the Wessex/Edinburgh example.

Personally, I think the main driver in a title for her children will be what the public will think if George and Louis' children are automatically title and Charlotte's aren't.
When the change from primogeniture was made there was a lot of talk about a future Queen being out-titled by a younger brother so the LP's were issued to title all of the then-Cambridge's future children.

If the royals think there will be a stink about Charlotte missing out because she's female then titles will be offered. If they think the public won't care then they probably won't be.

It would pass to whoever was next in line at the point the last of William's children died - assuming Harry had also died by then, the throne would pass to Archie and then to any children of Archie, then Lilibet - and if the Sussexes were childfree it would pass to Andrew's descendants, with Beatrice's line first - Sienna, her descendants ...

IMO that will never happen. Their whole thing is that it's hereditary. If they take that away they're just a random family.

Same reasons they'll never remove titles from Andrew (or Harry). Once the public see it's actually not ridiculously complicated to remove titles then they, or their children, are next at risk of losing theirs.
Look at the public disgust at them all when Diana died - the calls for Charles to abdicate his place in the line were loud.

If they take away hereditary they're finished.

one of the titles is 'defender of the faith' so they couldn't choose to be any other religion, they'd have to abdicate.

I'm not sure why posters feel they would be 'forced' to have kids, highly encouraged maybe, but there have been lots of monarchs without children.

the chance of all 3 of them not wanting or being unable to have kids is pretty low, but if that was the case then it would go to Archie (if he was still alive) or his DC.

In that scenario, George would remain king until his death. The crown would then pass to the next in line of succession who is still living, so it would be one of these.

1. Charlotte
2. Louis
3. Harry
4. Archie
5. Lilibet

One of the titles is 'defender of the faith' so they couldn't choose to be any other religion, they'd have to abdicate.

Except that title was granted to Henry VIII by Pope Leo X for his defending the Catholic faith against the Protestant reformation, ironically enough - so no, it’s not really a reign-ending event!

There are two options here as the rules currently stand. Follow the example of Princess Margaret who married Anthony Armstrong-Jones who was promptly created Earl Snowdon, and with her children styled as the children of an Earl (and a courtesy title of Viscount Linley for the heir). Or follow the example of Princess Anne, who married Mark Phillips and who declined a title for him and her children.

The latter seems more likely, but obviously views can change.

Yes - the full line of succession extends far beyond anyone who'd have the faintest chance of actually becoming monarch, to individuals the majority of us have never heard of, so there's always going to be someone to take the throne - although the further down the line you go, the more complex it becomes because you start getting people who have an equal 'claim'.

However, unless a nuclear strike wipes out all the well-known royals, it's highly unlikely no one in the top ten in line would have a legitimate descendant.

Could they still be a Prince or Princess if their father wasn’t a Prince or held no title?

There will be options modeled on what Edward has done - things like lifetime dukedoms, not using prince/princess titles. That's the direction it is all going in as otherwise you end up with a proliferation of dukedoms that then end up non-royal after a few generations.

It would be the end of the monarchy if Harry or his kids were next for the throne imho.

Princess Margaret’s husband was created Earl of Snowdon, and Charlotte’s situation is not dissimilar to that.