Opinions may Vary . A genuine question about why Meghan and Harry seem to attract such differing views.

[BasiliskStare]

I post this more in hope than experience but I would be really interested in a proper discussion about those who are fans or supporters of them , those who aren't and indeed ( of which there are many ) , those who are indifferent.

So - I'll start. There was an interesting post on another thread which said M&H come over as David and Goliath , standing up against "the Institution" - my paraphrase.

No spitting , no fighting , mind the furniture 😂

Well they are all silly then! Catherine gets filmed doing it the most is all.

No PR. I have no skin in the game here at all. My interest is purely a degree of sympathy for Meghan who I suspect was genuinely taken aback by the degree of tradition and formality that is maintained.

All her jams and making out that growing vegetables is some kind of quasi-spiritual experience is also very silly. Ridiculous behaviour from the lot of them in different ways.

Many families, across multiple cultures, have traditions for greeting elders. To join a family and ridicule these would in most cases be seen as unmannerly.

Do I find it similar to religious genuflecting or lying fully prone? No, that's not bowing to a fellow human being.

But that is the point. They, whether family members of members of the public, are NOT bowing and/or curtseying to an individual but to the holder of a role. It is the role of King or Queen that is being acknowledged not Charles and Camilla.

People stand when the President of the US enters the room. Or when a judge enters the court. It is acknowledging the authority of the office. Curtsying (or bowing) to the monarch/head of state is no different.

I know that's the principle. I just can't take it seriously and I find the idea that other members of the RF are able separate the role from the person to that extent weird and yes, cringy.

Still not the same as a genuflection. However much one might respect the monarch they are still another human, not a deity

If you believe in deities.

Of course you do. 🙄

M was so taken aback with the curtseying that she had no problem with people curtseying to her...sure Jan!

Again, M's own actions do not support your narrative no matter how much you persist.

The reality is M was quite happy to have "lower ranked" people curtsey to her. She was unhappy to curtsey to those who "ranked higher" than her.

As an American, I would not bow or courtsey to H & M. They are not on official duty for the UK. They are private citizens. I also would not use the HRH.

@DappledThings

Well they are all silly then! Catherine gets filmed doing it the most is all

The RF curtsy to each other when they meet and no matter how much more you twist yourself inside out trying to put a negative spin on Catherine being the one filmed doing it the most, you’re not going to succeed in making it into anything nasty to suit your narrative.

Fact - if Catherine is pictured curtseying to the King, the most all it means is that on the day the press chose to focus on her greeting the King. It really is as simple as that.

They curtsey to each other once a day (when they meet for the first time that day) and that’s it. But if they want to they can also curtsey when saying good bye.

I can relate to the latter because I always bend down to kiss my sisters in law on the top of their head when we meet, and that’s enough according to the etiquette here but I always bend down and do it again when I’m leaving because of the love and respect I have for them.

And again - it really is as simple as that.

It's strange to actively want to be part of a hierarchical institution, then hate the hierarchy. Also strange to accept people bowing and curtseying to you, calling you Your Royal Highness and deferring to you. Stranger still to have a coronet above your initial on your stationery. Strange to insist on titles. Stranger yet to have those things after you have left said hierarchical institution.

I don't particularly know whether Meghan herself had any issues with the curtseying. I'm not particularly fan of hers or anti-Catherine. Why the insistence on painting it all as so binary?

All I'm saying is that I think the criticism Meghan has got for not following protocol all the time is tedious and unimportant.

M was so taken aback with the curtseying that she had no problem with people curtseying to her...sure Jan

Again, M's own actions do not support your narrative no matter how much you persist

The reality is M was quite happy to have "lower ranked" people curtsey to her. She was unhappy to curtsey to those who "ranked higher" than her

Spot on. And a picture to prove it as well.

Meghan is only interested in money and fame. How she gets it is irrelevant to her. She just used the RF to get a leg up for purely selfish reasons . Whatever narrative suits her to get where she wants is fine by her because she has no real moral compass. So one minute she’s a humanitarian, champion for women’s rights, philanthropist , blah blah. The next she’s selling complete tat online that’s made in a factory, whilst pretending she picked the produce from her garden and made it with her own fair hands. Totally venal and self serving and completely dishonest to the core. She’s turned her weak, vain husband into her accomplice .

curtseying is just plain weird. why would anyone feel the need to curtsey to Meghan? (try saying the word a few times....is daft)

It was an expectation because of her status, which she was happy to accept

She's not been criticised for "not following protocol". She's been criticised for hypocrisy

I prefer Marina Hyde’s “Harry Antoinette” 😁

That's a great one! So apt 😂

Bear with me because I fully admit I probably haven't thought this one through properly , but I wonder if M's "fandom" is a bit like football supporters. Once you picked a side you stick with it come what may. DH has supported a team for 60 years. Early doors when I first met him they were going through a low patch. I glibly said "why don't you pick another team then?" He looked at me as if I had uttered a screech like Donald Sutherland in "Invasion of the Bodysnatchers" . I think in the early days when it looked like there was a lot to like about MM , it was very easy to support her. Over time things she & H have done have meant many have fallen by the wayside, but others have become more entrenched in their support because they've picked a side and will stay with it come what may.

Any merit? 😊

I don't think that genuflection works as a comparison, the curtsey is rather a direct parallel to saluting a superior officer as also mentioned above. At least they only do it on meeting rather than every time they see each other in a day like the military. It's a sign of respect to the office that's all. These days there is no obligation for anyone to curtsey or bow but if people chose to do it what's the problem?

As for Meghan, someone clinging to titles has no grounds to complain about the curtsey. She did herself no favours at all by mocking the whole thing in their "documentary". It made her look ignorant and petty and Harry looked weak sitting there watching. For someone so fixated on her image and status i was surprised she did it on camera.

That was a very unpleasant moment. Why mock something that she willingly accepted?

I think this sums it up for me . Throw “ call me ma’am” into the mix too .

I think there is something in that. Most fandoms have people who are loyal come what may and some who are loyal when the person is popular or until they do something fans don't like. Look at how Johnny Depps fans behaved during his trial. Some heinous things were alleged and they never wavered. It works have made me pause to say the least but they have blind loyalty.

With Meghan, her core supporters have held her up as a perfect warrior combating racism and colonial injustice, fighting for the little person, rescuing her Prince, impeccable style, successful in everything she does, etc etc. It's hard to draw back from that so cognitive dissonance becomes the easier choice.

Exactly. But also why allow yourself to be filmed doing it and release the film. I don't think she expected the backlash which indicates to me that she still didn't understand the relationship between the Royal family and the UK.