Best advice for Harry going forward?

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I have all the same initial reactions as many others on MN regarding Harry i.e. whiner, grifter, stupid, entitled etc and it's easy to dole out the criticism.

However while I wouldn't say I have sympathy for him, as so much of his situation is of his own making, I actually do have some underlying feelings of concern for him and his future (and children).

He reminds me an awful lot of a relative of mine who is neurodiverse with a mild learning disability and a tendency to be self-absorbed with an overdeveloped victim complex - always lashing out, blaming others, seeing conspiracy where there is none etc.

Harry is clearly a damaged man, with childhood trauma and issues which continue to plague his mental health.
As with my relative, he has grown up with a support network which has probably quietly managed and enabled his passage through life, but when big outbursts happen (as have happened in our family too) everyone backs off and 'grey rocks' him until he has calmed down. Some people just give up, too exhausted by the constant drama of it all.

I actually thought the RF could have filled up the space around Doria a little better so she didn’t look so alone

I'm sure they could have done, @dearg, and may well have welcomed the idea in order to fit in more guests, but we have no way of knowing what was requested at the time

We do however know that Meghan's been at pains to keep her dad well away from the RF, but while doing it with one parent might just about have been credible I imagine both would have looked a bit much - and from her behaviour since it seems Doria was always the most likely to keep her mouth shut

It’s usually under cover of darkness

Do you think she never intended for her dad to be there?

Personally yes, though of course it's a "think" and not a "know"

I don’t think she did - surely the normal way of doing things in that position would have been to have flown him over a few weeks before the wedding - help him with getting the right outfit - let him meet some of the family - have him come to the rehearsals etc.

He still hadn’t met Harry in person just days before the wedding when those ‘pap pictures’ of him were released.

At that point he should have been in the UK preparing for the wedding.

Looks like they didn’t do anything to try to get him there and ready for this huge event.

She was ashamed of him and his appearance didn’t match her narrative!
that’s why she didn’t want Harry to meet him , that’s why he was set up with her photographer to give her a reason to keep him away from her wedding.

Absolutely agree @jeffgoldblum shame she didn’t follow Diana’s example who at her wedding to Charles pretty much supported her father down the aisle as he had suffered a severe stroke that he wasn’t expected to survive, he spent 8 months in hospital.

Just three years earlier, the earl had suffered a stroke that left him unsteady on his feet.
However, nothing would prevent him from playing the part of proud father on July 29, 1981 - the day Lady Diana Spencer married The Prince of Wales - despite some of those watching questioning whether the frail 57-year-old would even make the walk down the aisle.
It took three-and-a-half minutes to cover the 625ft to the front row. It struck a chord with the millions watching.
Reflecting on the moment, Daily Mail journalist Richard Kay later wrote: 'If Prince Charles had found the perfect bride in young Diana Spencer, then the country had found in her father's shuffling gait... a rich, warm figure unlike any stereotyped aristocrat.'
His son Charles, the 9th Earl Spencer, would write in a similar vein, describing his father's 'bravery' and the 'global admiration, when he walked my sister Diana down the aisle of St Paul’s in 1981 with stiff, wavering, but determined steps'

Earl Spencer was a similar build to Thomas Markle, you can tell Diana never felt shame unlike Meghan.

Do you think she never intended for her dad to be there?

Yes I think she never intended him to be there.

If she intended him to be there, why hadn't Harry met him?

I don't think it was (entirely) due to his appearance - haircut and scrub up a bit and put him in a morning suit he'd probably have looked fine. I think she was afraid he'd talk about her upbringing and show up all the fibs she'd told. Same reason no childhood, school or college friends were invited, no doubt.

I think Doria only arrived a couple of days before the wedding, didn't she? Had Harry met her before?

This is a very interesting point, because, according to Tom Bower, the Queen suggested that Doria sit with members of the RF but Meghan insisted that she sit alone. I remember feeling very sorry for Doria that day.

Tom Bower suggested it was a) because Meghan didn't want people talking to Doria - she wanted to control what was being said by her mother. and b) that Meghan knew very well how the optics for this would look and was already laying the ground for her 'The RF is racist' scenario.

Damn - my copy of Revenge is lent out at the moment, but I'll try to hunt down the reference. It depends who you believe, of course. But I'm inclined to believe the savvy lawyer, Tom Bower. The Sussexes have never tried to sue him...

I remember being incredibly touched when Prince Charles (as he was then) reached out for Doria's hand on the way to the register. No way was Doria deliberately shunned or isolated by the royals - how ridiculous. The Queen was very concerned that Meghan's family were so sparse.

Incidentally, TB also states that the Middletons also reached out (horrible expression, but it fits in this context) to Doria and Meghan and invited them to stay more than once, but the invitation was always declined. Again - it didn't fit with Meghan's narrative of victimhood, did it?

Obviously we only know what we see but Doria has always struck me as very elegant, discreet and in old-fashioned terms 'a lady' (not as in aristocrat). Meghan not so much.

Also - I remember, even on the wedding day, noticing that Charles's (and other RF members) warmth towards Doria didn't seem to be reciprocated. She seemed cold and very taciturn. Of course - there could be very good reasons for that: shyness, being overcome by the occasion, anxiety about protocol and decorum. But with hindsight I can't help wondering if there was an element of Meghan telling her to keep her mouth shut at all times when in the company of the RF!

Speculation - but oh boy, in view of the things which Meghan has done/said since that day - I'd be prepared to believe she was trying to control events even then.

Did she come across this way in the Netflix show?

I noticed that too. She seemed very stand offish.

But he was an Earl!

I havent watched it

Meghan’s mum didn’t have a title, she didn’t mind her mum attending her wedding, she suited the aesthetic.

Tom Bower suggested it was a) because Meghan didn't want people talking to Doria - she wanted to control what was being said by her mother. and b) that Meghan knew very well how the optics for this would look and was already laying the ground for her 'The RF is racist' scenario

Interesting points right there, @CoffeeCantata - especially the second one, which hadn't occurred to me

They're still only a writer's claims of course, but there's no denying Meghan would prefer her lies not to be revealed so they'd make a certain amount of sense

She came across as quietly spoken but forthright. She said that she told Meghan Markle that the media’s treatment of her was down to race. So arguably she sowed that poisoned seed.

I think there’s a lot more to DR than people
assume, just because she isn’t loud and showy doesn’t mean she’s meek and mild either.

She wasn't alone. Benita Litt was in the pew with her. You can see them sat together in views from the alter.

Edit for further thought. Since Benita seems have disappeared since the wedding, even though her daughter were bridesmaids and supposedly MM's godchildren, I am going to posit that her relationship with MM was professional rather than personal, and that she was there to keep an eye on Doria.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a20718104/who-is-benita-litt/

She wasn't alone. Benita Litt was in the pew with her.

I wonder if she knew Benita, or if they met for the first time then. She wasn't really someone Doria could share her thoughts with, as she might with a close friend or relative.

Benita is supposed to be one of MM's oldest friends and they are supposed to be godmothers to each other's children. I'd be surprised if Doria hadn't met her at least once.

She's a female founder/CEO/philanthropist. It will be interesting to see if she's one of the guests on MM's podcast.

This might come across wrong but I genuinely didn’t realise Meghan was mixed race when she first hit the public eye, I don’t think I’m alone in that.

I do think there’s been an element of racism, particularly from the press, but a lot of people liked her in the beginning regardless of her heritage. The coverage around the wedding was generally pretty positive.

Back to dragging up the wedding again to just have something to continue to speculate and make shit up again. 😆