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PippistrelleBat · 27/03/2025 16:01

AtIusvue · 27/03/2025 13:01

She must also have had evidence of something (governance issue, CC referral, bullying, whatever) to be given a temp injunction on the vote to remove her from the board.

You don’t get injunctions to stop you being removed from a board due to bullying. An injunction would have been granted because the mean of removal was not within the rules of Sentebale. Possibly a decision taken outwith a meeting, insufficient notice, the meeting not quorate, a single trustee being granted powers by other trustees that could not have….

GiveMeSpanakopita · 27/03/2025 16:05

IdaGlossop · 27/03/2025 14:48

The model Dr C is proposing is presumably about sustainability. Harry and his pals won't be around for ever. I can see how this might be a difficult thing to accept for a prince and his coterie. This very British style of fundraising would presumably grate on Dr C (just as it did on me years ago to have to promote a fan museum because a board member's wife had founded it 🤯).

Yes I think this is an excellent insight. Dr C perhaps wants to ensure long term sustainability for Sentebale by widening it beyond what sounds like a cosy fundraising gig which enables Harry to do plenty of what he likes.

It's a similar situation with Invictus - the rumours are that they're very keen to widen their activities and PR so that they're not just associated with Harry.

I think we're now seeing some of the longer term consequences of the messy and recriminatory exit from the RF which H&M chose. If Harry had remained part of the RF, sustainability would not have been an issue for either of these charities as his children and other RF members could also have gotten involved, in time. But now, he's not a full Royal, he's a celebrity husband in the US, without the pull or networks he could once bring to bear. So he's less valuable, and his favourite charities have to look beyond him.

It's interesting that the Palace, in setting up Sentebale and enhancing Invictus, were very clever to find Harry activities that were socially meaningful but also allowed him to do things he loves to do - polo, hosting gigs etc etc. Two birds one stone - get Harry doing something socially positive and keep him out of trouble. And the Palace probably also kept a close eye on the charities to ensure that Harry, through misspending or poor behaviour, never got the charities or the RF into hot water.

Possibly Harry didn't fully realise how indispensable this behind-the-scenes Palace work to the healthy functioning of his role as Patron of Invictus and Sentebale, and the health of the charities themselves.

PippistrelleBat · 27/03/2025 16:05

Baital · 27/03/2025 14:04

Not necessarily, if it was an unincorporated association they might be personally liable, but I doubt it was set up that way. The other 3 forms of governance structures don't have trustees personally liable, unless there is wrong doing or negligence on their part.

Just as most companies are set up with limited liability for Board members.

I am not sure anyone has suggested they would be liable for any debts of the charity. I said they would be responsible for any financial difficulties - in extreme cases (not suggested here) that could mean disqualification as directors or trustees. Otherwise it could cause damage to your reputation which could be harmful in a business world. You would also have a duty of confidentiality to the board so could not say ‘those trustees were the ones making that decision’ or if you did that would cause you different reputational damage.

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 27/03/2025 16:10

PippistrelleBat · 27/03/2025 07:07

Is it really better to pretend the past did not exist? To push all references out of our knowledge? No more Baa baa black sheep because it references offensive over taxation of the poor? No more ‘pop goes the weasel’ as it glorifies alcoholism and debt? Actually best get rid of all nursery rhymes lest you reference torture (Mary Mary quite contrary), death penalty (oranges and lemons), or the death of millions (here we go round the mulberry bush). Better to be like the BBC rewriting our history to pretend half of Tudor Brits were black (but only the white ones were responsible for misdeeds).

I agree. Lots of words and phrases have their origins in things that We Thoroughly Disapprove Of in 2025. However, they have fallen into common usage in some cases over centuries and a lot of people aren't even aware of the original connotations. It's part of how language develops and evolves.

I do occasionally say, "you couldn't swing a cat in here". I am not envisaging a whip. I'm picturing a four legged furball. I always qualify it by saying, "not that I ever would swing a cat of course!" because I am a massive cat lover and am currently owned by three furries.

There are some that are very obviously not a phrase to be used now, like in Eeny meeny miney mo. My lot always thought it was "catch a bidder by the toe" so we side-stepped that!

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 27/03/2025 16:16

AtIusvue · 27/03/2025 09:43

Great article. Basically it’s over for Harry in Africa and he’s lost without the palace aides.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/prince-harry-charity-sentebale-b2721959.html

‘Sentebales current turmoil is a reminder that “serving” is no longer enough. Optics are all important, likewise the managerial depth to contain any untoward implosions. The royal family are not immune to tensions associated with unfortunate missions across the Commonwealth (Kate and William’s Caribbean tour of 2022 anyone?), so too are managerial mishaps and unfortunate headlines par for the course. But unlike lonesome Harry, the institution of monarchy has the depth and support to withstand critical blows and cast out in new directions.
Nearly 20 years on from the founding of Sentebale (and assuming the resignation of his patronage becomes permanent), it will be harder for Harry to begin again in Africa (if that is what he chooses to do). Our current foreign minister, David Lammy, is not the only person to have pointed out that Britain’s historic white saviour complex (in Lammy’s case, the target was Stacey Dooley and Comic Relief) holds back perceptions of Africa as a continent with a large diaspora and a track record of helping itself. Quite where this narrative leaves Harry as a white privileged man who wants to do good on the continent and beyond remains to be seen.
His princely offerings of polo fundraisers and diplomatic glad-handing already feel a little dated.’

‘Meghan’s marriage to Harry gave her the X-factor she needed to transfer from B-list actor to A-list celebrity. Sadly, the same cannot be said for Harry. When he married Meghan and left the British monarchy, he swapped royalty for celebrity – and naively believed that a “life of service” would prove a straightforward affair outside protective palace walls.
The reality suggests otherwise, with the Invictus Games Harry’s one significant remaining triumph. In an increasingly dangerous world full of war and poverty, it is tragic that our most able prince of hearts finds himself not only without his honorary military roles – but is now minus his flagship charitable mission in one of Africa’s poorest regions.‘

He has really lost everything he ever had pre-Markle, hasn't he?

I hope it's all been worth it.

Munnygirl · 27/03/2025 16:20

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 27/03/2025 16:16

He has really lost everything he ever had pre-Markle, hasn't he?

I hope it's all been worth it.

this ⬆️

MaturingCheeseball · 27/03/2025 16:21

I just feel that a lot of sanctimonious/angry people are waiting to catch the hapless out. They must have a spreadsheet of problematic expressions, even if they have the most tenuous link to an historic unwanted behaviour, and are ready to spring into the attack. Ds went through (a thankfully short) woke phase and had an attack of the vapours when I remarked that Dog, upon his return from the groomer’s, smelt like “a tart’s boudoir”.

IdaGlossop · 27/03/2025 16:39

MaturingCheeseball · 27/03/2025 16:21

I just feel that a lot of sanctimonious/angry people are waiting to catch the hapless out. They must have a spreadsheet of problematic expressions, even if they have the most tenuous link to an historic unwanted behaviour, and are ready to spring into the attack. Ds went through (a thankfully short) woke phase and had an attack of the vapours when I remarked that Dog, upon his return from the groomer’s, smelt like “a tart’s boudoir”.

I hope for Dr C's sake that she has credible evidence of bullying, racism, misogyny and misogynoir. Given her background, I think it reasonable to conclude she has. Even then, a lot is left to interpretation and the balance of probabilities. As an example, I dislike the use of 'females' rather than women, and feel that men who use it are dismissive of women. If I was lumped into a group of women described as 'females' in the workplace, however, I would need to show that the intent was to be dismissive. Not easy.

PopeJoan2 · 27/03/2025 16:43

The ignorance on this thread about Boards, Trustees and the way they function is mindblowing. But what is absolutely unforgivable is people who are writing in ignorance making up possible scenarios and treating them like fact.

AtIusvue · 27/03/2025 16:44

Munnygirl · 27/03/2025 16:20

this ⬆️

As time goes on he will feel lonelier. Lots the aides, pals that have helped over the years- were old school, posh, brits….who were a bit older than him. Even his head security guy (again British) that he’s used for years….that guy must be well into his 50s. He can’t be an on the ground security operative forever.

They will be replaced by Americans, who quite rightly, will pay no deference. Who won’t know the rules of the royal world. He’s hanging onto the last threads of a Royal life but that won’t last forever. He will always be rich (Meg is bringing in the cash) but he will be completely removed from everything he has ever known- family, friends, aides, royal estates, royal/aristo/English culture, geography.

Sentebale, with all the old staff leaving and Harry too, is symbolic of the royal cache that’s he’s been coasting on the last 5 years, coming to an end. I also don’t think Invictus will be around in 10 years either.

He will be a househusband of Beverly Hills.

OP posts:
GiveMeSpanakopita · 27/03/2025 16:59

It's all turning into a bit of a morality play about unintended consequences and the long term dangers of mistreating and being ungrateful for your family.

I think H&M thought that they could remove themselves from the RF, move to Cali, and everything would broadly be the same, only with lots more money and less ribbon cutting.

In truth, nothing's the same: not their reputation, nor their gravitas, nor their influence, nor their ability to effect change, nor the esteem and respect with which they are regarded by others.

If this was 1570 someone would've commissioned Kit Marlowe to write a morality play about it!

Weepixie · 27/03/2025 17:09

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s at the stage where he just throws his hands up and says I’ve had enough and it’s time to take stock and start this new life again.

They don’t need the home they have and downsizing to a different part of California, New York even, could get them the fresh start they need.

People can only take so much even when most of their mess has been created by them and living in a state of constantly lurching from one crisis to another, or another dose of damage limitation can have terrible effects on a persons heath and well being. It causes all sorts of illness.

MrsLeonFarrell · 27/03/2025 17:15

GiveMeSpanakopita · 27/03/2025 16:59

It's all turning into a bit of a morality play about unintended consequences and the long term dangers of mistreating and being ungrateful for your family.

I think H&M thought that they could remove themselves from the RF, move to Cali, and everything would broadly be the same, only with lots more money and less ribbon cutting.

In truth, nothing's the same: not their reputation, nor their gravitas, nor their influence, nor their ability to effect change, nor the esteem and respect with which they are regarded by others.

If this was 1570 someone would've commissioned Kit Marlowe to write a morality play about it!

It really is sad. But. Harry was in a position to know what the likely outcome was because he had the example of Uncle David. Royal status is a attached to the verb not the noun.

IdaGlossop · 27/03/2025 17:17

Weepixie · 27/03/2025 17:09

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s at the stage where he just throws his hands up and says I’ve had enough and it’s time to take stock and start this new life again.

They don’t need the home they have and downsizing to a different part of California, New York even, could get them the fresh start they need.

People can only take so much even when most of their mess has been created by them and living in a state of constantly lurching from one crisis to another, or another dose of damage limitation can have terrible effects on a persons heath and well being. It causes all sorts of illness.

The fault line running through all that has happened is the lack of an experienced and trusted team to manage two people who are globally prominent. They left the UK in a rush and without a plan. Poor foundations always lead to a shaky house. The combination of Harry's lack of brainpower and Meghan's self belief has created the chaos that has been playing out in public for the last five years. Despite lower myself to gossip about them, I do feel sorry for them. I think Meghan will be fine because she has shown she can forge her own path. Harry is a different matter.

Serenster · 27/03/2025 17:20

Disputes between Board and Senior Management factions are very common, and there’s always an element of “he said, she said” about them. High profile charity failures (like Kids Company in the UK) garner a lot of public and press attention. So this is a difficult area for all parties.

Kids Company (which collapsed after concerns were several raised about its sustainability and financial reserves - the official reports showed plenty fo financial mismanagement and unauthorised expenses) forever tarnished the reputation of its founder Camila Batmangelidjh and the Business Secretary brought proceedings against the eight former directors to have them banned from company directorships. No one would want that kind of action here, I suspect - perhaps why the mass resignations?

I’d also note that while none of us know what is being alleged, and that both sides will be doing their best to point at each other, you don’t get an injunction in the UK without providing the court with evidence that you have a good arguable case. You also have a strict duty to disclose any evidence that undermines your case too - so the judge can look at things int he round and decide if an injunction was warranted. That’s not foolproof - plenty of injunctions are later discharged - but it is a high bar you have to meet to get one.

Injunctions are also sought in relation to an underlying litigation claim, so there must be a claim filed - that may well be made public at some point.

PippistrelleBat · 27/03/2025 17:47

IdaGlossop · 27/03/2025 16:39

I hope for Dr C's sake that she has credible evidence of bullying, racism, misogyny and misogynoir. Given her background, I think it reasonable to conclude she has. Even then, a lot is left to interpretation and the balance of probabilities. As an example, I dislike the use of 'females' rather than women, and feel that men who use it are dismissive of women. If I was lumped into a group of women described as 'females' in the workplace, however, I would need to show that the intent was to be dismissive. Not easy.

I agree about ‘female’; it puts me in the same category as my cat. But I wouldn’t raise a complaint about it.

PopeJoan2 · 27/03/2025 17:58

AtIusvue · 27/03/2025 16:44

As time goes on he will feel lonelier. Lots the aides, pals that have helped over the years- were old school, posh, brits….who were a bit older than him. Even his head security guy (again British) that he’s used for years….that guy must be well into his 50s. He can’t be an on the ground security operative forever.

They will be replaced by Americans, who quite rightly, will pay no deference. Who won’t know the rules of the royal world. He’s hanging onto the last threads of a Royal life but that won’t last forever. He will always be rich (Meg is bringing in the cash) but he will be completely removed from everything he has ever known- family, friends, aides, royal estates, royal/aristo/English culture, geography.

Sentebale, with all the old staff leaving and Harry too, is symbolic of the royal cache that’s he’s been coasting on the last 5 years, coming to an end. I also don’t think Invictus will be around in 10 years either.

He will be a househusband of Beverly Hills.

Edited

And how is your life going @Atlusvue? Are you wealthy in good healthy with children and a partner who loves you? Have you ever tried to make a difference in a troubled world?

Theeverdisappearingpen55 · 27/03/2025 18:01

Serenster · 27/03/2025 17:20

Disputes between Board and Senior Management factions are very common, and there’s always an element of “he said, she said” about them. High profile charity failures (like Kids Company in the UK) garner a lot of public and press attention. So this is a difficult area for all parties.

Kids Company (which collapsed after concerns were several raised about its sustainability and financial reserves - the official reports showed plenty fo financial mismanagement and unauthorised expenses) forever tarnished the reputation of its founder Camila Batmangelidjh and the Business Secretary brought proceedings against the eight former directors to have them banned from company directorships. No one would want that kind of action here, I suspect - perhaps why the mass resignations?

I’d also note that while none of us know what is being alleged, and that both sides will be doing their best to point at each other, you don’t get an injunction in the UK without providing the court with evidence that you have a good arguable case. You also have a strict duty to disclose any evidence that undermines your case too - so the judge can look at things int he round and decide if an injunction was warranted. That’s not foolproof - plenty of injunctions are later discharged - but it is a high bar you have to meet to get one.

Injunctions are also sought in relation to an underlying litigation claim, so there must be a claim filed - that may well be made public at some point.

I don’t want to divert the thread from Sentabale but I thought Camilla Batmangelidjh had been cleared by the High Court?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56044000

Camilla Batmanghelidjh

Kids Company founder and former trustees win disqualification fight

Judge rejects bid to ban Camila Batmanghelidjh and seven ex-trustees from being company directors.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56044000

MaturingCheeseball · 27/03/2025 18:03

I know little about boards/trustees etc etc, but neither I think does Harry. Sentebale was just a little project for him, and I don’t doubt he believed in their work, but I doubt he was involved in any way. Shaking hands, doing a bit of shimmying with charity recipients, raising some money through fun stuff… that I am sure is the extent of his participation.

I read a piece by someone who was on a board with Prince Andrew. They said he was perfectly genial, but had absolutely no clue what they were talking about and could not contribute to the board discussions.

More concerning is that reputedly Sentebale fundraising was funnelled through Archwell, stopping en route in Delaware, and we know how that pans out for the charity. Again, I’m sure Harry can’t make head nor tail of his bank statement, let alone devise a tax avoidance scheme - but if he is sailing close to the wind there is no one now who can mop up his messes.

Serenster · 27/03/2025 18:07

I hope for Dr C's sake that she has credible evidence of bullying, racism, misogyny and misogynoir. Given her background, I think it reasonable to conclude she has.

Dr Chandauka has an impressive CV. Looking at her Linked In profile she was a lawyer at gobal firm Baker McKenzie for 8 years, then left to join Virgin Money as effectively Head of Legal for their Treasury department (the part of a bank that is responsible for the Bank having enough money to lend out to its customers, and maintain its necessary regulatory capital reserves etc). Then she held a senior operations roles at Morgan Stanley in London and New York for 6 years, covering Compliance, Legal and Shared Services (eg office locations, IT, outsourcing etc). Then she moved to Meta in Risk Operations.

These are highly credible and professional organisations. Generalisation here, but it would be unlikely for someone who has built a successful career in this field and for these employers to not understand the importance of good governance, adherence to polices and rules, operating in a highly regulated environment, attention to detail and always having good evidence for the record. It’s also unlikely that someone with such a high career would throw it away without good reason.

sleetysnowflakes · 27/03/2025 18:13

Maybe it’s like that Alex Polizzi programme when she’s called in to save a struggling hotel and the owners throw their toys out of the pram when she suggests they spend a bit of money decorating the rooms and getting a chef in to cook the breakfast.

ColourlessGreenIdeasSleepFuriously · 27/03/2025 18:15

Let's face it, PH was always going to hopelessly out of depth heading up anything bigger than a local five a side team. He is not smart enough to be where his social position has put him.

jac120w · 27/03/2025 18:15

Serenster · 27/03/2025 17:20

Disputes between Board and Senior Management factions are very common, and there’s always an element of “he said, she said” about them. High profile charity failures (like Kids Company in the UK) garner a lot of public and press attention. So this is a difficult area for all parties.

Kids Company (which collapsed after concerns were several raised about its sustainability and financial reserves - the official reports showed plenty fo financial mismanagement and unauthorised expenses) forever tarnished the reputation of its founder Camila Batmangelidjh and the Business Secretary brought proceedings against the eight former directors to have them banned from company directorships. No one would want that kind of action here, I suspect - perhaps why the mass resignations?

I’d also note that while none of us know what is being alleged, and that both sides will be doing their best to point at each other, you don’t get an injunction in the UK without providing the court with evidence that you have a good arguable case. You also have a strict duty to disclose any evidence that undermines your case too - so the judge can look at things int he round and decide if an injunction was warranted. That’s not foolproof - plenty of injunctions are later discharged - but it is a high bar you have to meet to get one.

Injunctions are also sought in relation to an underlying litigation claim, so there must be a claim filed - that may well be made public at some point.

According to CNN she might not have an injuction.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/26/africa/harry-quitting-african-charity-scli-intl-gbr/index.html

The news agency said she claimed she had reported the trustees to the UK’s Charity Commission and that a UK court had issued an injunction to stop her dismissal. CNN has not seen a copy of the alleged injunction from the UK’s High Court. A source familiar with the matter told CNN that no such order had been issued.

Prince Harry ‘in shock’ after quitting his African AIDS charity | CNN

Britain’s Prince Harry said he was “in shock” after quitting as a patron of Sentebale, a British charity he set up to help young people with HIV and AIDS in Lesotho and Botswana, following a row between trustees and the chair of the board.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/26/africa/harry-quitting-african-charity-scli-intl-gbr/index.html

Conundrumseverywhere · 27/03/2025 18:23

MaturingCheeseball · 27/03/2025 18:03

I know little about boards/trustees etc etc, but neither I think does Harry. Sentebale was just a little project for him, and I don’t doubt he believed in their work, but I doubt he was involved in any way. Shaking hands, doing a bit of shimmying with charity recipients, raising some money through fun stuff… that I am sure is the extent of his participation.

I read a piece by someone who was on a board with Prince Andrew. They said he was perfectly genial, but had absolutely no clue what they were talking about and could not contribute to the board discussions.

More concerning is that reputedly Sentebale fundraising was funnelled through Archwell, stopping en route in Delaware, and we know how that pans out for the charity. Again, I’m sure Harry can’t make head nor tail of his bank statement, let alone devise a tax avoidance scheme - but if he is sailing close to the wind there is no one now who can mop up his messes.

It beggars belief really. Such expensive educations, everything they could ever want and yet Andrew and Harry are thick as mince and equally as arrogant.
So many others who lack the financial means could have made so much more from their advantages.

binkie163 · 27/03/2025 18:24

I can't imagine a woman of her experience would be daft enough to lie to the worlds media, given PH's proclivity to sue all and sundry. I also doubt he would cut n run if he knows he has nothing to answer for.

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