If Harry still lived in the UK , do you think the feud would have been sorted by now?

[ThisPlumShark]

I do feel the biggest hurdle between Harry and his family is that he lives in another country, I think if he lived in the UK there would be more opportunity for them to sort it out

H was the one who was hungover or possibly still under the influence.

H looked like he was trying not to throw up.

Re the half in, half out, I think if it had been allowed, if they had continued to do some Royal events, there could have been big problems any time they attended a red carpet event, any time they made any public statement, any any time they visited another country - were they or weren't they representing the Queen?

As it is, it's possible to be clear that at no time are they representing King or country and they alone are responsible for anything they do and say.

H was the one who was hungover or possibly still under the influence.
H looked like he was trying not to throw up.

Ironic that PH then also complained that PW didnt stay up partying the night before H&M wedding - as he went home to his wife who had very recently given birth and his three very young children. Damned if he did, damned if he didnt.

Indeed. What a nasty, negative, mean person he is.

Harry was independently wealthy thanks to his inheritance from his mum. Otherwise, I agree with you though. Anne was gifted an estate when she married and I believe she has a farm on it, generating money for her. Edward didn't get the same (the place he lives is impressive but he is leasing it for X number of years). I wonder how they evened up the disparity.

Harry's dig about William not spending the night with him before Harry's wedding is deeply annoying, especially as Harry had two small children when he wrote Spare. He could have said 'I was disappointed but now looking back I understand.'. Harry's wedding was a huge day for Kate, three weeks post partum and two small DC in the wedding party. Of course she wanted her husband home the night before, even with a nanny in the picture.

The thing that struck me throughout that book, is that he expected a very high level of care, empathy, support and kindness from everyone else, yet seemed to be unable to extend any of that to anyone else, even his only sibling.

And we now know that Catherine was very stressed about the state of the bridesmaid’s dresses, with good reason.

When I first saw them I thought they were a-line. To know that was the altered version is shocking. Catherine will know her little DD will spend her life being scrutinised for what she wears and probably didn’t want it to start at age 3

@JandamiHash - I actually thought the bridesmaids looked lovely , but it is quite hard IMHO to put a little girl in a pretty dress and them not look cute. I had no bridesmaid at my wedding so not a thing I got involved in. That said , I do think when you are that age it's quite special to dress up like that so if Charlotte wasn't comfortable with the dress I can see that may have been more stressful than I give it credence for as a PP said. Especially as you say , Jandami , on a world stage.

Edited to add PPs user name before realising I couldn't see it from here and thus useless edit 😊

I think it was a bit more complicated than that. There’s already been a ruckas apparently over whether the bridesmaids should wear tights- Catherine saying they should as it’s royal protocol but Meghan eventually getting her way. Then a few days before the wedding Charlotte’s dress was far too big and baggy and Catherine was insisting it should be remade. In the end the tailors were working until 4am three nights in a row to get the dresses fixed and fitted to how you saw them on the day. Catherine was just weeks post partum and the original story was that Meghan had reduced her to tears over the whole thing, but at the Oprah interview Meghan stated that it was the other way round and Catherine had come over with flowers and an apology.

I bet Miss Markle was an absolute nightmare in the lead up to the big day, personally.

I bet Miss Markle was an absolute nightmare in the lead up to the big day, personally.

That would be consistent with her appalling behavior reported by dozens of staff and colleagues who have directly experienced or witnessed her bullying in many settings over many years, before during and after her time in the UK.

PH printed MM text to Catherine in Spare re the dresses - it does not paint MM in a good light - it reads as demanding, difficult and sharp. I suspect there were a lot of emotions and tears and C brought flowers as the bigger person and MM spun that into an apology.

Well, assuming Catherine did take flowers over (and I see no reason to disbelieve M on that), I strongly suspect it was to smooth things over, not as an actual “you were right, I was wrong” apology. And even then, Meghan made it all about herself by saying, “She did what I would do…” (taking a gift)

I lost my mum at a younger age that harry and I was completely excluded from her death and her funeral. In fact I wasn’t even told she had died until the day after she had been cremated.
I wish I had been offered the opportunity to be part of such an important part of my life and my mum’s life and that would have included walking in a procession if I had been in harry’s position.
I get really angry with his poor me whining.
He has been spoiled both before and after his mother’s death and he had a loving father, brother and extended family after she had gone not to mention immense wealth and every comfort.
Whilst I am not trying to make it a competition, my own childhood circumstances were much, much worse and I have never tried to publicly humiliate and destroy family members nor make my childhood something to whine about forever more.
Even the fact that I was excluded from my mum’s death and funeral I can excuse because I accept it was a different era and it was not done with malice, just ignorance.
It is of course an enormous trauma for any child which never leaves you as an adult and he has my sincere sympathy for that but it cannot be an excuse for a lifetime of shitty behaviour.

Yes exactly, it’s what we’d expect from what we know of Catherine, a dignified gesture in the interests of keeping the peace and of course at the time, thinking of all the high profile events and family gatherings where they’d be expected to get along. And it’s no secret as to how much she cared for Harry, I’m sure the last thing she wanted to do was to upset his future wife, even if she was behaving completely unreasonably.

I don’t imagine MM had any such qualms about upsetting Catherine though.

But there is no evidence that Meghan has ever apologised is there. It's easier to appropriate Catherine's gesture as her own rather than actually say sorry.

Meghan wasn't gracious in accepting the flowers from Kate. It has been reported she threw them in the bin and slammed the door in Kate's face

According to Tom Bower (and an account from one of the Givenchy seamstresses who was present that day) the upset was about more than the fit of the dresses. Meghan (who apparently had not wanted Charlotte and George as attendants and the Queen had to have a word) was there with her 'bestie at the time', Jessica Mulroney and her 2 sons and a daughter, who was older than Charlotte.

Charlotte was apparently shy and clingy with Catherine and Meghan and Jessica did that horrible mum-bullying thing, saying things like 'Oh what a baby you're being! Look how well (J's daughter) is behaving - she's s big girl!' This upset Catherine as well as Charlotte because according to the seamstress, there was a definite mean-girl, ganging-up edge to it. I'm guessing (no hard evidence, but I'd put money on it) that Meghan had bitched to Jessica previously about Catherine and in this context, with no courtiers present but with her own close friend, she felt confident to be Queen Bee and get revenge for having to play second fiddle to Catherine.

Ironically Jessica Mulroney is now persona non grata along with so many others in Meghan's life.

Charlotte had only just turned three a couple of weeks before the wedding! (Personally I think she was a little young for such a big occasion, and it wouldn't have been unreasonable to leave her out.)

I bet Miss Markle was an absolute nightmare in the lead up to the big day, personally.

Well it was reported that the Queen had to tell her off for speaking rudely to some of the catering staff during preparations for the wedding. 'We don't speak to people like that.'

Big occasion, pre-wedding nerves, OK, but M was old enough to know how to behave in public.

God, I read that recently too, that MM and her friend had pitched the little bridesmaids against each other. And obviously this is PURE speculation but MM was probably a bit over-exuberant (you know the sort of thing that people who haven’t been around young children much do, get in their faces and demand hugs and high fives and then label them as shy when they don’t play ball) towards little Charlotte and OFC she was going to be ‘clingy’ towards her mum (she’d recently just had a younger sibling too and that’s a massive thing for a small child)

I remember reading about the incident at the food tasting too. Apparently MM swore blind she could taste egg in a dish, and when told there wasn’t any in it, took the caterer to task over it for telling her she was wrong.

I wonder now if she had any intention of being walked down the aisle at all, at the time it was spun that she was ‘bravely’ doing that walk alone in the absence of her dad but now I think she grabbed the chance to have millions of eyes on her and her only. I think a lot of the upset came over having to realise that she was lower down in the pecking order than Catherine, whether she liked it or not.

Given the fact MM made a fuss over “nobody asks if I’m OK” when she was postpartum I wonder why she doesn’t look back on this and think “Shit Catherine was 3 weeks postpartum and had 3 kids and all this crap to deal with, maybe it WAS hard on her”

But she has doubled down

My god @Somethingthecatdraggedin7 thats completely broken my heart reading that. You poor thing

That reminds me of a scene in Motherland where Amanda says, in a bid to appear kind but she’s just having a dog, at another kid’s party “Dontou need some help Julia? Just to make the party a bit better?”

Ironically Jessica Mulroney is now persona non grata along with so many others in Meghan's life.

I have always had the sense that JM was a sneery, mean one. She was a useful stepping stone for MM as she had access to higher echelons of Canadian society when MM first arrived so she was fawning and ass licking her for years. JM was also more 'put together' and had higher social status than MM.

Imagine bumping into those two queen bees in a social setting.

Seems there is only space for one queen bee and JM got stung once MM had elevated herself beyond JM status and usefulness.

Not much sympathy tho - "if you lie down with dogs....."

And this alone would be a reason for the RF to hasten their departure for North America, rather than negotiate for them to be half-in, half- out.

Aside from media projects attacking the royals, H&M have interacted with Sussex Squaddies at the Nigeria grifters getaway and again at Invictus and have stayed silent on the vile SS social media trolls which daily attack W&C, Zara & Mike, Peter and various other family members.

What then for family relations as the descendants of targeted individuals find out about the tsunami of hate unleashed by H&M? How will they treat H&M's kids and grandkids?

Looking at the situation from a generational perspective...what on earth were H&M thinking to initiate this one-sided war?