If Harry still lived in the UK , do you think the feud would have been sorted by now?

[ThisPlumShark]

I do feel the biggest hurdle between Harry and his family is that he lives in another country, I think if he lived in the UK there would be more opportunity for them to sort it out

That awful family??!! There is only one 'awful family' here and they don't live in the UK.

@Vespanest "Before they flounced when they believed the half in half out was in the bag it was all about continuing to work with his family. "

Or collaborating with the Queen as they put it 😂I think they thought they could bounce the RF into it. Luckily HLMTQ was made of sterner stuff.

I do think that if PH's wife had been someone different at that time and they were under strain a reasonable half in half out could have been negotiated.

However by this point Meghan's repeated bullying behaviour was so entrenched that she had hounded at least two people from their jobs in a 6 month period and had harassed and distressed others to the extent that a witness had submittted a written complaint. She had also fallen out with C and their two offices separated. This wasnt just about a couple not coping or seeking a different direction - this was a very toxic personality with a lot of collaterol damage around them. Valentine Low in his book Courtiers said that palace staff had described 'narcissistic sociopath' behaviours and on reflection her plan was always to leave the RF and monetise it back in LA before she was even married.

I didn’t read Spare but I’ve seen lots of excerpts and it reads like the Sussex Squad wrote fan fiction. So much bullshit and random anecdotes like “William stank of booze on the day of his wedding”. I highly doubt that - Harry looked hungover however.

Same - I couldn't manage to get through that rubbish, but I have read online most of the famous bits.

The quote you mention, while being very mild compared to Harry's other slanders, is absolutely vile, isn't it? Who writes that sort of thing about their brother on his wedding day? How would Catherine feel, reading that? And it wasn't just any wedding he's dissing - it's the heir to the throne whose public image is important. And Harry presumably knew all this, but went ahead with it.

How anyone, supporter or critic, can condone Harry's revelations is beyond my understanding of decent behaviour.

The anger came when he was told no. Harry had the right to tell his side of the story with his emotional facts as important as objective facts, equally his family have the right to never trust him again.

Family members have the right to have things out with each other, of course. But in private. It's bad enough (and embarrassing for others) when we ordinary folk wash our dirty linen in public, isn't it? But when public figures do it, it's off the cringe-scale and actually does damage beyond the family.

OK - I get that Harry is a petty, resentful, peevish, small-minded little s-h-one-tee, but keep it in the family. Family relationships are private and spilling the beans in the wider world is never going to end well.

Harry is difficult but clever PR hid this for a long time. Meghan is toxic. That has become more apparent. But I knew it almost from the start.

this is so sad, i lost my mum later in my 20s but I remember that every interaction was so raw and I remember all the slightly off things people said, I can't fathom how much this very tough day has burned into their brains. If they say it was hard it was hard, it's awful that some people on here are trying to tell them how they should have felt about this.

@CoffeeCantata Trouble is having it out privately doesn't get you a $100m Netflix deal or a $20m book advance.

You see, Coffee, you just really haven't thought this through properly have you?

😂💐

William, aside from being papped on the odd night out in his early 20’s, has been basically flawless when it comes to duty annd appearance and Doing The Right Thing. I really don’t think such a diligent heir to the throne would be so hungover on his wedding day in Westminster Abbey where his mother was buried and a billion people would be watching. Harry is deluded.

My own brother (DB2) has become something of a narcissistic twat in recent years. He refused to invite one our other brothers to his wedding because “Since meeting Laura she’s shone the light on my childhood trauma - you all picked on me but DB1 was the worst and I’m not forgiving him”. We were siblings - we’d ALL play pranks on each other and wound each other up….but do you know who was the worst - DB2. He used to steal from everyone (even my grandparents who would collect money for the local hospice, he stole actual hospice money to buy a hi-fi), he once sold my Walkman (which was new) to a friend when we were teens, he was a horrific liar, we constantly had the police at our door because of him. he did all sorts. But apparently he’s the victim and we all picked on him!! I was flummoxed and I stood in solidarity with my lovely DB1 - who I suspect DB2 is jealous of and always was as he was smarter and slicker and more popular with girls etc - and I said “If DB1 isn’t invited to your wedding I’m not going”. It’s a really bizarre turnaround, apparently his wife (a PA) has a psychology degree and has diagnosed him with CPTSD. He was willing to forgive me and our other sibling apparently..lucky us… I have very little to do with him these days. But it makes me see what people are like and how they can just tell barefaced lies that are hard to disprove because it was the 80s/90s, we were kids and it’s largely based on memories.

H was the one who was hungover or possibly still under the influence. I remember my dm commenting on the contrast between the two brothers. H looking like a hungover scruff, despite wearing a uniform, and James Middleton looking very handsome and delivering a perfect reading, despite being dyslexic.

@Zimunya thanks for your comment about the Princes various statements about the funeral procession. I have always thought there was no right or wrong answer to this impossible decision. Had the boys not accompanied their mother they my have forever been left with a feeling that they were not there, not with her on her final journey, excluded. Which would be terrible. I personally don't feel children should be excluded from this vital part of the bereavement process. On the other hand, in order to take their place, they were forced to be 'on display' because of the demands of the public, manipulated by the media, for a very public funeral. Personally I think they royal family were correct to protect the boys at Balmoral and to protect their right to be a part of their mothers funeral. I think an exception should have been made and a private service given for Diana, due to her children's young age and in light of the fact that she was no longer married to the Royal family, so a state funeral was not needed. She was clearly loved at that point, so a public memorial service was needed, but it could have been separated from the funeral. But that was not possible due to the demands from the public. I actually think the media were mostly to blame for whipping up the public making anything personal impossible. I can completely understand why both Princes would loath the media and can see why it has driven Harry to be the way he is.

Love this balanced view of all sides x

I actually think the media were mostly to blame for whipping up the public making anything personal impossible. I can completely understand why both Princes would loath the media and can see why it has driven Harry to be the way he is.
I agree. Harry has an almost pathological hatred of the press. He did blame them for his mothers death in Spare, which they obviously didn't mention. He did say that he saw the tunnel where Diana died, and it was very short and straight. He said that even if the driver was drunk, he wouldn't have swerved if he wasn't being chased. I don't know whether that's the truth but its what he believes and he will never forgive them for it, especially with the added phone hacking.
I think, even if he and Meghan split up he will blame the press for the split and probably the RF for the pressure they have put them under, which would not aid a reconciliation. I think the relationship between him and William is dead.

No - that's a very good point!😁

But I wonder who gave him the idea that so much money could be made out of selling your family down the river? Hmmm.

So did I, Viviennemary. I don't like to admit it because I open myself to jibes of being prejudiced (I don't mean racially prejudiced - I managed to somehow miss that Meghan was mixed-race until quite late in the day) and judging people too rashly.

But for me she set the alarm bells off immediately. Her early appearances and interviews were just so slick, so....false...and Hollywoodish that I took against her, I have to say. Give me Shy Di (back in the day) or the more reticent and shy Catherine any day of the week. They just seemed more genuine and honest.

Various people I know got these vibes too and the feeling was: she won't last the course. She's not the sort of woman to put up with living under the RF's rules and restrictions, gilded cage though it might be - partly because she was older, more worldly, independent and superficially sophisticated than most royal wives. But I don't think we imagined they'd both bugger off!!😀

Alistair Campbell on his podcast once said that neither of the brothers likes the press but that William hides it better and understands that the press are an unavoidable part of his role.

@MrsLeonFarrell I can see that. William has been schooled better, maybe as the eldest. Or maybe he was just able to listen, perhaps because he has support from his (very solid) non-royal family connections that bring some reality. But his life will be easier for playing the game with the press and following royal tradition, never complain, never explain.

Harry just seems to be bursting with anger and is unable to hide it, control it, manage it, or work through it. He seems to have very little support, really we only see Megan, and I suspect her lack of understanding of the UK and the British Royal family makes it difficult for her to advice. Her experience of Hollywood will bring a different lens to the situation which in many cases jar's with British culture and history. I suspect they are both doing their best, but have not got the tools to find the right path. They seem lost. I find it very uncomfortable to watch.

Yes, plus William was lucky to marry Catherine, who seems to have a lot of common sense and who spent a long time learning what would be expected of her before she married.

Harry and Meghan always strike me as one of those couples who don't bring out the best in each other. I was in a relationship like that when I was younger and I'm so glad I didn't marry that person.

Yes, plus William was lucky to marry Catherine, who seems to have a lot of common sense and who spent a long time learning what would be expected of her before she married.

I think this is the key part. Catherine was tormented for being Waity Katie but actually the time she and William spent really thinking seriously about their future together was invaluable. Especially as Catherine was not aristocracy. She learned what was expected and made the decision to accept the job offer as well as the man. William was committed by the time they married and must have been certain she was the right choice for him and for the country.

It sounds unromantic but actually sometimes sensible is best. Great, fast sweeping romances are the stuff of novels for a reason. The story ends at the peak and we don't see the fall out. Nobody knows if Elizabeth would have thrived at Pemberley or been lost and out of her depth. If Darcy would have continued to live by his improvements taught by Elizabeth or reverted to type, proud, pompous and impossible to live with.

What well reasoned posts @Hoolahoophop

I too didn’t realise that Meghan is mixed race ! The engagement interview rang a warning bell for me . It just seemed so fake . I still remember the messages flying between friends - none of them complimentary !!

Excellent post with lots of good points. Also we KNOW that Marianne would have had a calm, sensible marriage with Colonel Brandon and Willoughby would have inevitably been a massive shagger her whole life. I feel like she’d have very soon realised she made the right choice

So I liked her in that interview and thought she seemed extremely nervous, and came across as humble. How very different to Meghan of today - no word salad to be seen anywhere!

The thing is, that the problem with the whole concept of a Royal Family is that William has skin in the game. His family will be the ones who are the most important. His children and grandchildren will benefit from him playing nice with the press. The issue is always the 'spare'. They start off being second in line to the Throne and then fall further and further into irrelevancy. They system The Late Queen negotiated means that the whole family are dependent on the largesse of The Monarch for their cash, for their entire lives. Even if Harry has stayed within the family, his fate would have been to get more and more irrelevant and waiting for handouts from his father then brother then possibly nephew. I think the huge benefit of restricting the Royals to just the monarch and the heir is that the younger children don't spend their lives just sitting around waiting for handouts in return for doing all the boring ribbon cutting that the main people don't want to do. That's hardy fulfillng, no matter how much money you have. They would know that they will have to carve out their own career, even if it is a similar one to other kids of aristo's.

There were more working royals in the Queen's generation, with the Queen Mother, Princess Margaret, the Kents and the Gloucesters, Princess Alexandra and then her children as they grew up. I think an argument can be made that this was necessary before social media and mass media. As the late Queen said she needed to be seen to be believed.

However I don't think this is true in the current generation. Apart from Andrew, who is his own set of problems, and Charles' own children, the rest were raised to be independent and none are working royals. I think the institution has been moving towards there being fewer royals working for the sovereign full time and a related move towards children being raised to work. The late Queen was definitely doing this albeit more slowly and as the older generations retire, i can't see Charles replacing them. They aren't moving quickly but they never do.

Regardless though children of the family will be raised with money, left trusts etc just as the children of any other wealthy family. The hitch is that some of them seem to think this should carry on forever, regardless of whether they are working for the institution.