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The royal family

Is there another couple in the world like The Sussexes?

1000 replies

veraswaistcoat · 23/01/2025 10:54

I was musing last night about this aspect - they had the world at their feet. Despite what Sussex Supporters like to suggest most people in the UK nodded their heads " yes it was lovely Harry was getting married finally" . I had never heard of the bride myself as I don't watch American tv shows of that ilk. She was black or biracial? It didn't even enter my head what colour she was initially and then as coverage started it didn't make one iota of difference one way or the other. I recall the day of the wedding - it was sunny and the pubs were full of royal cheer broadcasting the wedding.

And then it all started to where we are today.

Are there any other couples in the world who have gone through such a downfall? Is this a feature of the social media arena today?
We see P Diddy and Blake Lively and others exposed now through SM.
You can't count the Duke and Duchess of Windsor in this category as they were always unpopular.

Can you think of any examples of people who have fallen so spectacularly?

I know people say " they live in California, they have money blah blah" but their reputation is one that most people would not want.

Is it purely because of their seeming complaining and sense of entitlement ? I mean you don't see the real philanthropists in this way - in fact you rarely hear about them and what they do.

OP posts:
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CaraCameleon · 31/01/2025 07:39

GiveMeSpanakopita · 31/01/2025 07:21

Mocking the rich and powerful is a millennia old activity, and it plays a vital part in societal cohesion.

Scholars such as O Taplin have argued that public mockery of the rich and famous acts as a pressure valve, enabling hoi polloi to release resentment at wealth inequalities without having to resort to violence. Jung - and evolutionary psychologists after him - have also argued this by pointing at how chimpanzees 'laugh' (they show their teeth and exhale in a HA HA HA mode - proto smiling & laughter) when they feeling are aggressive towards each other, and how this 'laughter' can release their aggression and thus avoid potentially fatal conflict. Scholars theorise that human laughter developed in the same way.

Thus we see that public mockery has always played a key role in democratic and proto-democratic societies. For example, in the 5 Century BC Aristophanes produced a play which savagely mocked Athens' foremost politician, Cleon - Cleon was in the theatre when the play debuted, allowing the peasants and farmers around him to have an extra good laugh at his expense (he sat there and took it). Mediaeval Kings always had their 'Fool', who, far from being a frippery, was there to poke fun at the King in the presence of his court - to thereby release resentment which could lead to usurpation, and even sometimes provide valid criticism of the King's policies (as Henry VIII's Fool did during the early days of the English Reformation. Henry couldn't handle it and replaced him. He was a tyrannical king.).

In the 18th century, the vibrant tradition of British satirical tabloids developed to mock politicians, and many leading academics have argued that this helps explain why Britain did not join many other countries in having a violent revolution (in France, for example, mockery of the royal family was strictly forbidden). I would argue that tabloids provide this function today and we would lose them at our peril.

TLDR: mocking the rich and powerful keeps us peaceful and sane. Plus, most normal, well-adjusted people enjoy it, because on a subconscious level we understand its social utility. People who claim not to enjoy it are either fibbing, or hold a poor understanding of the history and mass psychological conditions necessary for democracy.

Very interesting post. I wonder if the lack of satire and mockery in perhaps France or Russia led to Revolutions?

jeffgoldblum · 31/01/2025 07:41

Very interesting and informative! @GiveMeSpanakopita , yes the papers have always mocked the royal family, nicknames, cartoons lampooning them , later we had spitting image .

JSMill · 31/01/2025 07:57

@GiveMeSpanakopita what a brilliant and thought provoking post!

GiveMeSpanakopita · 31/01/2025 07:58

CaraCameleon · 31/01/2025 07:39

Very interesting post. I wonder if the lack of satire and mockery in perhaps France or Russia led to Revolutions?

There are a great number of academics (going all the way back to Plato, who, of course, was very far from a fan of democracy, because he thought it led to populist and dangerous demagogues telling the stupid, bigoted little people what to think. Plato was a copper-bottomed snob of course) who argue that the reason why theocracies, tyrannies and oligarchies tend to be more violent and unstable than democracies, is precisely because free speech - which mockery is an important part of - is stifled.

Living in a large society is difficult, and hoi polloi need safe outlets for their frustration.

I don't think people who live in democracies really realise how vital free speech (including mockery) are to maintaining civic calm and peace.

GiveMeSpanakopita · 31/01/2025 08:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JSMill · 31/01/2025 08:33

Indeed @GiveMeSpanakopita.

jeffgoldblum · 31/01/2025 08:46

Absolutely no one is above criticism!

Ohpleeeease · 31/01/2025 08:49

All of that I agree with. I was responding to the poster ticking off others for being gleeful at them being mocked. The way I see it is that the comment was actually made in a self deprecating tone, it poked fun at H and M but they weren’t the focus of the joke but rather the means to give it heft.

Fofftwenty21 · 31/01/2025 09:57

StartupRepair · 23/01/2025 21:07

I think it is their constant grandiosity and the yawning gap between their version of themselves and the reality revealed by their words and actions.
I can't think of another couple with such a huge platform and so little to offer. It is fascinating.

William and Kate fit this more closely I think.

Vespanest · 31/01/2025 09:57

It where comedy lies, I found Harry's comment to John travolta rude but I'm sure others found it funny. I'd argue if you enter a multimillion pound deal to provide content then the quality of that content is up for debate and yes even mockery.

CathyorClaire · 31/01/2025 10:59

Looked like a pretty tame mocking when compared to other examples to me but there's a growing pattern of publicly adverse commentary here and I doubt WLM will reverse it.

Maybe Rachel could show us how to elevate 'Hollywood Toast' in her show 🍞

TheCrowPeople · 31/01/2025 10:59

Honestly, it's surreal. One minute @GiveMeSpanakopita is talking about demokratia in ancient Athens and the safety valve of freedom of speech in society, the next thing (at 08.18) she's been deleted.

HereBeWormholes · 31/01/2025 11:07

Fofftwenty21 · 31/01/2025 09:57

William and Kate fit this more closely I think.

Those two show how carefully Harry's image was curated by the palace - without that expert PR protection, the soft underbelly of stupid self-absorption and uselessness has been exposed...

GiveMeSpanakopita · 31/01/2025 11:07

TheCrowPeople · 31/01/2025 10:59

Honestly, it's surreal. One minute @GiveMeSpanakopita is talking about demokratia in ancient Athens and the safety valve of freedom of speech in society, the next thing (at 08.18) she's been deleted.

hahahaha don't worry I'm not about to make like the Council of 400 in 411 BC. I value the intelligent conversations we all have on MN too much to do that! 😁

Rhaidimiddim · 31/01/2025 11:50

CaraCameleon · 31/01/2025 07:39

Very interesting post. I wonder if the lack of satire and mockery in perhaps France or Russia led to Revolutions?

More likely that the repression of mockery was indicative of a much wider repression that was eventually unbearable.

Jacquette · 01/02/2025 05:40

I was musing last night about this aspect - they had the world at their feet. Despite what Sussex Supporters like to suggest most people in the UK nodded their heads " yes it was lovely Harry was getting married finally" . I had never heard of the bride myself as I don't watch American tv shows of that ilk. She was black or biracial? It didn't even enter my head what colour she was initially and then as coverage started it didn't make one iota of difference one way or the other. I recall the day of the wedding - it was sunny and the pubs were full of royal cheer broadcasting the wedding

Meghan’s heritage most certainly entered the heads of the British journalists though.

In April, 2021 the Press Gazette; in an article by William Turvill, noted that “half of the journalists responding to a Press Gazette reader survey said they thought media coverage of Meghan Markle has been racist. Of the 721 respondents who identified as journalists 371 said they’ve seen coverage of Markle that they thought was ‘racist in tone or presentation’”.

“The survey was sent to all 10,000 Press Gazette email newsletter subscribers on 22 March.”

“More than half of the journalist respondents – 402 of out of 721 - said the media coverage of the Duchess of Sussex had not been fair.”

It also found that journalists from the tabloids were least likely to think Meghan Markle has been treated unfairly. big surprise.

GiveMeSpanakopita · 01/02/2025 07:49

Jacquette · 01/02/2025 05:40

I was musing last night about this aspect - they had the world at their feet. Despite what Sussex Supporters like to suggest most people in the UK nodded their heads " yes it was lovely Harry was getting married finally" . I had never heard of the bride myself as I don't watch American tv shows of that ilk. She was black or biracial? It didn't even enter my head what colour she was initially and then as coverage started it didn't make one iota of difference one way or the other. I recall the day of the wedding - it was sunny and the pubs were full of royal cheer broadcasting the wedding

Meghan’s heritage most certainly entered the heads of the British journalists though.

In April, 2021 the Press Gazette; in an article by William Turvill, noted that “half of the journalists responding to a Press Gazette reader survey said they thought media coverage of Meghan Markle has been racist. Of the 721 respondents who identified as journalists 371 said they’ve seen coverage of Markle that they thought was ‘racist in tone or presentation’”.

“The survey was sent to all 10,000 Press Gazette email newsletter subscribers on 22 March.”

“More than half of the journalist respondents – 402 of out of 721 - said the media coverage of the Duchess of Sussex had not been fair.”

It also found that journalists from the tabloids were least likely to think Meghan Markle has been treated unfairly. big surprise.

I'd like to break this down a bit because I often see the old fib, that Meghan was a victim of media 'racism' played out still. It really should have been debunked after Netflix was unable to find any UK racist headlines for the H&M docu, but since some people still believe it, let's look at the claim in more detail.

The early coverage of Meghan was pretty much hagiographic, with the tabloids obediently reproducing the Palace PR lines about her being a successful actress and feminist activist (spoiler alert: she wasn't) until....she and Harry took a flight on Elton John's private jet a couple of days after a big speech on climate change and how the onus was on ordinary people to reduce their carbon output. The tabloids called out and mocked this hypocrisy, as they should - their important social function being as I pointed out above, to puncture the hypocrisies of the rich and powerful.

But what really made the media take agin Meghan was the ridiculous and unprecedented release Harry insisted on putting out (against the very wise counsel of Palace PR) accusing the media of being racist against Meghan.

Why did Meghan believe the media had been racist? Because of a headline in the Mail which described her as being 'Practically Straight Outta Compton'.

Some context is needed here. Compton, a predominantly Black area with severe socio-economic problems of longstanding, is near to the more middle class area where Meghan grew up. The headline was timely, because the film Straight Outta Compton was just at that time premiering in UK movie theatres. The film is a biopic of the late 1980s rap group, NWA.

It's difficult for me as a hip hop fan to explain to muggles just how seminal NWA were. Featuring the storied and deeply gifted Ice Cube and Dr Dre, they used their music to tell unvarnished stories of the chaos in Compton, caused by crack and the institutionally violent and racist police response. Songs such as Fuck Tha Police detail police brutality mercilessly, with a beat you can dance to. Their debut album, Straight Outta Compton, is still fresh, urgent and relevant today (it was and is played frequently at US BLM marches). I would urge anyone interested in the 1980s urban working class Black experience to give it a listen.

Dr Dre invented an entirely new form of hip hop called 'g-funk' which was then taken up and used by his proteges 2pac, Snoop Dogg, Eminem and Kendrick Lamar. It's no exaggeration to say that without Dre, hip hop would not be what it is today. Meanwhile Ice Cube went on to release many politically active albums and became a social activist.

I would be most interested to know WHY H&M felt that the Compton headline was so offensive to them? The young men of NWA grew up in grinding poverty; they lost loved ones to crack, AIDs, gang violence and police brutality, and they took that pain and turned it into great art. Dr Dre, Ice Cube and Eazy-E achieved far, far more than Meghan or Harry ever have, or ever will. Meghan should, in my view, be proud to attract such a comparison, which she does not deserve. So why the fury? Do she and Harry dislike any suggested link between themselves and working class Black musical artists? If so, why?

That's before we get on to your characterisation of the media coverage of Meghan as 'unfair'. Newspapers have never ever had a remit of 'fairness'. The BBC has a remit of 'balance'. But no media outlet has a remit of 'fairness', because fairness is deeply subjective.

TLDR: the UK media weren't racist towards Meghan. They mocked and punctured her and Harry's hypocrisies, as the US press is now doing, a good deal more viciously. H&M can't handle it, because they believe they only warrant positive coverage. Well...they don't.

FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger · 01/02/2025 09:20

Brilliant post (as always) @GiveMeSpanakopita . I'm a WOC, and I have never understood why anyone should feel anger or shame at being associated with a particular area known for having a large population from a particular community/culture. Especially when one's bestie, Serena, was from that area, and that area has produced, as you point out, many people who have shaped popular culture and made a huge impact on the world.

I wear it as a badge of honour that I came from a particular community, survived its downsides, was positively shaped by all its upsides, exceeded outsiders' (and insiders') expectations of me, and went on to have a better life than those critics.

And if Meghan doesn't think that's reflective of her childhood. Then laugh it off, ignore it. Don't Streisand Effect a single article. And don't play-act that you grew up poor and disadvantaged with your cheap salads, when you demonstrably didn't.

There's a reason why both Netflix and Oprah had to manufacture negative headlines/press scenes about H&M for their specials. Because they couldn't find real ones.

Mylovelygreendress · 01/02/2025 10:09

@GiveMeSpanakopita
“But what really made the media take agin Meghan was the ridiculous and unprecedented release Harry insisted on putting out (against the very wise counsel of Palace PR) accusing the media of being racist against Meghan.”

I read ( although can’t remember where ) that Meghan urged Harry to issue that statement in order to progress the relationship. He was besotted and any suggestion ( however unlikely) that she would dump him , sent him into a panic .

I do agree that the statement was ill advised. Also, was it not released while Charles was at some important event which is a no no in Royal life .

MaturingCheeseball · 01/02/2025 13:00

One of the bits of the Sussex Saga I don’t get is how it is said that Harry had gone off Meghan around the time of the Inskip wedding (Harry’s best mate) and so Meghan had to hot foot it over there to reel him back in.

Ime of these things (which I grant you isn’t huge but is enough!) being “besotted” is at the beginning of a romance. Can anyone be re-besotted ?

Mylovelygreendress · 01/02/2025 13:06

MaturingCheeseball · 01/02/2025 13:00

One of the bits of the Sussex Saga I don’t get is how it is said that Harry had gone off Meghan around the time of the Inskip wedding (Harry’s best mate) and so Meghan had to hot foot it over there to reel him back in.

Ime of these things (which I grant you isn’t huge but is enough!) being “besotted” is at the beginning of a romance. Can anyone be re-besotted ?

He certainly didn’t look thrilled she was there and Meghan was photographed looking daggers at a woman who was talking to Harry .

Mylovelygreendress · 01/02/2025 13:09

Lots of photos online

Is there another couple in the world like The Sussexes?
Is there another couple in the world like The Sussexes?
Ohpleeeease · 01/02/2025 13:12

I think they are one of Those Couples, always mad at each other or mad about each other.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/02/2025 13:16

There's a reason why both Netflix and Oprah had to manufacture negative headlines/press scenes about H&M for their specials. Because they couldn't find real ones

Accurately put, @FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger, as was the rest of your post, but then tthis is why I've often mentioned the massive exaggeration involved in so many of H&M's claims after they'd failed to get their own way with the RF

Nobody with sense denies that Meghan suffered some racism and that it was completely unacceptable, but to have stuck with the truth clearly wouldn't have offered sufficient "justification" for their behaviour so here we are

Weepixie · 01/02/2025 13:30

was musing last night about this aspect - they had the world at their feet. Despite what Sussex Supporters like to suggest most people in the UK nodded their heads " yes it was lovely Harry was getting married finally" . I had never heard of the bride myself as I don't watch American tv shows of that ilk. She was black or biracial? It didn't even enter my head what colour she was initially and then as coverage started it didn't make one iota of difference one way or the other. I recall the day of the wedding - it was sunny and the pubs were full of royal cheer broadcasting the wedding

@Jacquette I was on a train going between Milan and Zurich on the day of the wedding and I bought very expensive internet to be able to watch the wedding and all that was televised before and after the ceremony. It didn’t take long for me to realise people also wanted to watch it and I invited them over to the table I was sitting at. All in all I shared with approx 13 people over the journey and it was such a happy time with mixed nationalities genuinely pleased to see Harry and Meghan get married. No one really had heard of Meghan before the romance, not even the Americans present, but of course they knew of Harry and the walk behind Diana’s coffin and all anyone wanted for him and his bride was a lifetime of happiness.

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