Awful card

[Jostuki]

Happy holiday season. 🙄

Harry is a prince and his children are prince and princess. Why shouldn't they use their titles? It doesn't mean they have to take up a royal job.

If a professional assessment by the met police or whomever says he need security, then yes.
If they don’t give it to him because they don’t think he needs it, then of course he should pay for his own if he wants it.

This is exactly it as it stands. Ongoing risk assessment for each of his visits to the UK.

It is PH himself who is conflating the issue with his vexatious claim against the UK govt when he is really raging with his Dad / the late Queen / the firm etc who are not the assessors.

Should UK taxpayers pay for his security for him and his family to visit Colombia and Nigeria to extend their commercial interests?

Where does it end - is it for life for them all - all four of them in different directions - what if they decided to go to Syria, China, Russia, Palestine etc

But what they are asking for is extremely complicated and is the result of their own choice and vanity , per their statements they left to protect their family and do other projects on their own terms.

But then all their security concerns were in the US , They had lots of issues with Drones and breakins at their home in California , I can’t even comprehend how even Met funded protection officers can stop that?

It's not a bit entitled to think the very people who have put you in this position should protect you.

It's pretty entitled to expect the UK public to underwrite 24/7 expert protection (experts whose training they've paid for in the national interest) in respect of a US resident and globe-trotter.

He hasn’t actually - at some stage Harry dropped down a rung into the category of Royal Family members who have security based on assessed need, rather than automatically (as Charles, William and Willim’s family have). This was made clear in his court case against the Home Office.

So in his court case Harry is now claiming a higher security status then he had while still a working royal.

Yes it is puzzling how some folk don't see it. He is of course 'entitled' to use Prince and Duke but as he has made a career out of slagging off the rf you would think he'd have a bit of, oh I don't know, pride perhaps even bog standard self awareness and say please call me Harry Wales/Harry Markle whatever.

He hates the rf institution but needs them to be relevant. He wants to be authentic yet he's a sell out. It is very sad.

Until a couple of years ago, Anne and Edward were the daughter and son of the monarch (and now are the sister and brother of the monarch) and they still did not have full time security - only when on official duties.

So the argument that Harry's relation to the king makes him entitled to and requiring of 24/7 security for life is defunct. I've never heard his supporters justify what makes Harry so different and special from other equally close relations.

His security was not stepped down to punish him. It would always have been downgraded at some point - just as with other royals - but obviously when he stopped being a working royal, and in "official" status became less important, that just accelerated the process.

The only thing keeping Harry as high profile as he is, is Harry himself with his attention seeking behaviour. If he and Meghan had decided to live privately, dropped their titles and not insisted on titles for their kids, they would very quickly fade into obscurity- surely a positive thing if safety was your main concern.

I think (cutting him a bit of slack!) that in theory yes, of course he should expect not to have the same level of protection, blah blah

BUT imagine your whole life you have had people managing you, shadowing you, minding you, talking about you, making plans for you, protocols have been designed for you. Even your parent's death is a public 'operation' or a meeting or a discussion. And you kind of have to trust that process because, well, it's your family and that is literally how you live (cf Andrew's 'just a straightforward shooting weekend').

And then your fam say, yup, you wanna choose another way to live? OK. Laters....

I mean, Obviously he should be old enough to take that change on board, but also...family trauma runs deep, so...

We are seeing something unravel here for sure.

He gets security. In the UK, paid for by us.
What is entitled is thinking that it should be without limits or constraints, as if he were the monarch or heir to the throne, not someone who binned it all off.

I am convinced it is because he is so incredibly jealous of William. It has been exacerbated since Meghan came on the scene . Clearly she has a problem with Catherine and the fact that she is higher status . She thought / expected the brothers to be treated equally . I am sure The King loves both his sons but as far as protocol is concerned , William and Catherine will always be senior.
So the security issue is ( in my opinion) about status ; he wants the outriders etc just like William .

I don’t in all honesty think he was this jealous before M came on the scene. My feeling is a lot of it is her whispering in his ear about how unfair it all is and how they should be getting X Y and X. Because SHE wants all the trappings of being married to a Prince.

In the statement they released when they chose to leave they called themselves Internationally Protected Persons and assumed that leaving a working royals would not change that status. The fact that IPP was removed is why Harry is fighting the government.

His problem is that IPP status is governed by international agreement and awarded only to people who are politically important, which he is not. If he gains IPP status the people who will pay for his security in the US are the American government, can't see that being popular over there.

Harry has a bespoke arrangement whereby he is given security as and when he needs it when he visits. No one else gets that. You are usually either IPP because of your political position or you are given security because of a serious threat (Salnan Rushdie) that is withdrawn when the threat is considered over.

Harry is already getting special treatment, it's just that he apparently thinks he should receive what William has even though he isn't the Heir.

RAVEC have been clear on this and even if he wins he only wins a review not IPP status. It's hard not to think he is simply wasting money.

In Spare Harry said that he told Meghan their security would never be taken away .

He was right. It hasn't been taken away.

Anne was the daughter of a Queen, is now the sister of a King. Edward was the son of a Queen and is now the brother of a King.

Neither get close personal protection security (which is was Harry wants) unless they are performing Royal duties on behalf of the Monarch.

It's been that way for several years now for them.

So you think they should start getting 24/7 CPP now, because they are exactly the same status wise as Harry?

It would be cheaper for them to get it, because they do actually live in the UK.

I don't think anything of the sort. In fact I don't think a royal family is necessary at all in this day and age. William and Catherine went beyond an "heir and a spare" without a thought for the cost to the British taxpayer. But sure let's hate Harry for thinking that as a prince of the United Kingdom - a position he didn't choose - his family should be protected.

I wonder if William and Catherine will be this dismissive if their own children want a different life one day than the one they have brought them into. You don't want to be a royal pawn, Louis? That's fine. Fuck off then. If some nutter shoots you, it's your own fault.

Harry has the money to pay for protection. He is a multi millionaire. He just doesn’t want to spend the money that way. He seems to think he’s entitled to live abroad, slate the UK and his family yet still get to keep all his millions for himself and not have to pay for security. He doesn’t need a huge mansion, to be flying all round the world at the drop of a hat , and for his wife to wear designer gear everywhere. They could live quietly and comfortably somewhere low key and still afford security. He just doesn’t want to compromise in any way .

They didn’t want to use the children’s titles when they were just “Earl” and “Lady” though. Only when they became “Prince”
and “Princess”. This would suggest that actually they only use the titles for cynical reasons

Do you think that it's not just M whispering in his ear but more like M verbally pushing him and, rightly or wrongly, he feels a failure in her eyes for not succeeding?

Yes, very likely. However he needs to grow a spine.

But he’s not a UK prince - he lives in another country of his choosing and as such, has to abide by the rules around security in such circumstances. If he wants UK security he needs to live here and be part of the RF.

@chollysawcutt

*And then...to have that effectively pulled because you aren't a Royal in the same way anymore. That's like a message that you aren't 'faaaamily' (said in Eastenders way!)

I would imagine, given his very obvious struggles with his view that the RF failed his mum etc, that would be a real kick in the teeth.*

When people change jobs is it reasonable to expect to still get the benefits from the previous job?

Of course not.

Before he made the decision to change his role he should have discussed the consequences.

I don’t think it was quite that, actually.

Before Meghan, while William and Harry were still quite young and the Queen was on the throne and Charles still had to become a monarch and then reign a while, and before his cancer diagnosis which must have sped things along for William, William and Harry were treated much more as equals. Yes William was the future king and Catherine the future queen and yes they’d already secured the line by having children, but day to day Harry was a free agent who tagged along to engagements and benefitted from their treatment and William and Catherine, although no doubt being prepared for their future roles, still were quite far from the obviously visible ramifications of becoming king and queen one day. When alone, as a working royal, he will have received very similar treatment. All the succession planning and image projection was probably not that different for the brothers at that stage.

When Meghan came along, the Queen was getting older and it was more apparent she wouldn’t go on much longer, Charles was already stepping up and starting to take over, William was being required to step up also. It was all naturally diverging for the brothers already. Harry didn’t expect it to, I think. Not if he was capable of thinking he’d still be an IPP as an an overseas non-working member of the RF. He must have thought that the way things had been his whole life is how they would be going forward. He’s been thrashing about suing people to try to make them be so (but only in the respects he cherry picks, none of the duties and exposing his children to the public, no siree).

Then everything happened quickly. Harry I imagine promised the moon on a stick to get Meghan to actually marry him. She clearly didn’t need much persuading so not difficult to do. He wanted to no longer be a bachelor, and he wanted her to be the next Diana and thought she could be because after all she wanted to hit the ground running and she was heart attack beautiful and so clever and compassionate and had some humanitarian props already etc etc, and the public initially totally took to her. He thought that with her, they’d be as Charles and Diana were, but actually happy. There was a point around their wedding when William and Catherine looked incredibly dull and staid and unglamorous next to William and Catherine, Meghan the American breath of fresh air etc.

I do believe that in the pitiful saga of who made who cry, Catherine probably did make Meghan cry and did send her flowers to apologise. Tense times for a post partum woman and all that nonsense with Thomas Markle. And I believe that the palace probably did use Meghan as a scapegoat and protected Catherine from bad press at that time at Meghan’s expense.

However, I don’t for a second believe that Meghan didn’t know that this was because the palace was protecting the future Queen (a position held by Catherine) rather than the individual formerly known as Kate Middleton. When she complained that the palace fed her to the wolves, and didn’t protect her, what she was saying was they made her look bad in the press for Catherine’s benefit. That they covered up the truth at the expense of her public image. Probably true, but only half the story. She knew why this would have been so, but saw an opening, no doubt encouraged by her agents who were telling her that to protect her stock she should stop all this bad press. She deliberately took it personally, deliberately chose to see the RF member as only family members as not also holders of institutional functions and roles that benefitted from engineered press and influence for the benefit of the monarchy’s role in serving the UK, deliberately consistently and unfailingly chose to refer to them as “his dad”, “his grandma”, “your brother”: it suited her to bring them down to her level in the hierarchy because she didn’t like and couldn’t handle not being at the top of the hierarchy and it was damaging to her $ earning power to not be the most feted and certainly to be a scapegoat. She didn’t want to buy into the institution, a monarchy of which she could never be at the top. That was never her aim. Her aim was herself, betterment of her own value. Harry meanwhile bought the whole Californian “were all equals, what’s all this anachronistic BS?” because it suited him too. He wanted out and she was his tickets out. Victimhood was possible, and the only place money could come from.

And I think their life right now reflects this. The money has been made from her two minutes in the BRF and now she’s moved on. She’s shed the RF entirely except for the titles for her and her D.C. which might still hold residual value. She’s gone back to what she knew best and always wanted and she’s back to hustling for a living. Harry, meanwhile, is adrift. I see no indication that he has a clue how to live his new life. What on earth does the future hold for him me his children?

Yes he could surely budget more effectively. So, say, forget private planes and put that toward his security costs.

It's funny, while he blames his status (that he was born not his choice etc etc) for the reason that he needs security it is also his status (that he was born into etc) that has given him millions in gossip deals. He has to take the rough with the smooth but we know he is incapable of that.

I've always thought, re the bridesmaid story, that the most likely truth was that they made each other cry. Perfectly understandable in the situatio circumstances and extremely trivial and boring to bring up years later in books and interviews.