Where is Harry?

[Rhaidimiddim]

Just that.

Thanks @GiveMeSpanakopita for that insight.

I agree that MM does understand the depth and breadth of the RF - thats why she wanted to get into it so badly, why she wanted to hit the ground running and why she wanted 1/2 in 1/2 out and has maintained her titles and given them to her children.

I think all of her behaviour can be seen as classic reactive and impulsive narcissism from clamouring for the spotlight, to having to be superior and bully others, to flouncing and smearing/backstabbing. The last of which is a demonstration of 'narcissistic rage' after her fake, shallow and overblown fragile ego was crushed when her repeated bullying of staff was exposed within The Firm. She would likely have been ashamed and blindsided internally (although she would not recognise these emotions) by being called out but this would be expressed defensively as indignance, self rightiousness, revenge, bitterness etc.

Previously she had managed to contain and compartmentalise her outbursts on the way up - but now she is in a place where the walls have ears - her every move and manoever would be observed and collated. She is emotionally flawed, dysregulated and impulsive which is no surprise given her upbringing - PH similarly.

. I don't think SF has ever really made a come back, but her work ethic is impressive, producing multiple children's books, producer credits. She will always be a figure of fun.

SF doesn’t always seem to be a great judge of character, to say the least, but I met SF a few times (through work) well post the PA split and from what I saw she certainly made the effort to go the extra mile and put aside time to take an interest in the people around her.

She was certainly much interested in hearing other peoples’ stories, rather than talking about herself.

Compare and contrast….

To some extent I think SF 'will always be a figure of fun' but I think she has also earned herself some respect and affection for parts of her conduct over the years.

@GiveMeSpanakopita

"Meghan still thinks in terms of days, weeks and months - she failed to make the transition to thinking in terms of decades and centuries, and she failed to understand (as Kate grasped well) that the RF is a centuries long PR strategy, and much, much bigger than any single individual."

I agree that Meghan didn't grasp this at all whereas Catherine did. However to be fair to Meghan, Catherine had the enormous advantage of being British and having that cultural knowledge of how the royals work, at least from the outside. She had to learn how the family worked from the inside, and well done William for giving her a decade to learn, but she had a basic grasp of how the family fitted into the nation which Meghan so obviously lacked and either wasn't prepared for or was unwilling to learn.

For all her faults SF never disrespected HMQ or the rest of the Royals. Certainly didn't dish any dirt.

Are we talking about the same SF who wrote two tell-alls, offered to sell access to her husband, took a 'salary' payment from an alleged fraudster and who had more contact numbers listed in Epstein's little black book than Andrew?

That SF?

Her own links to Epstein might well be why she stuck with Andrew.

But I certainly don't remember her trying to dish dirt on the RF or give away private todger information.

Fair play to both her and Diana they never disrespected the MIL or at least not in public (everyone has MIL moans)

That's who @ThePoshUns and I were talking about, and as we both seem to see her as a mixture of characteristics, I see that neither of us claimed to admire her a hundred per cent. That can be seen in the wording of our posts.

Posts were talking about Fergie earning respect and affection and not dishing family dirt.

I'm just pointing out why neither perception should pertain.

IMO she's a grasping limpet who like so many others in the family flies inexplicably under the radar.

Edited to add link :

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sarah-fergusons-most-shocking-tell-24582070

I've said it before ad nauseam, but the whole York clan are awful IMO.

If YOU think that respect or affection shouldn't pertain, that doesn't mean that everyone thinks the same. I have a friend who has a gentler attitude to Fergie than I have. She says, "Well, I just like her. I think she got a rough deal." I think she means over the divorce.
As far as I can tell, when Fergie needed money, one of the things which she did was to write the Budgie books. That seems a respectable enough thing to do. I don't see that I should regard her as a figure of fun for doing that.
Did you see her arrive at Harry's wedding? I think that was when she wore a tightish green suit. She got a cheer from the crowd. I don't recall her being booed by them. I would say there was acceptance and affection there.
A couple of years ago a poster was saying that it was awful that Fergie wasn't invited to Christmas dinner at Sandringham, after her divorce, implying that it was mean of the Queen or Duke or RF. I didn't agree with the poster but there you are - someone else who didn't think Fergie was/is the pits.

Didn’t Epstein pay off her debts as well?

I have a friend who has a gentler attitude to Fergie than I have. She says, "Well, I just like her. I think she got a rough deal." I think she means over the divorce.

I think her decades long life of luxury in a substantially upgraded 30 room mansion, years' worth of access to a £££m ski lodge and now (admittedly murky) involvement in the purchase of a £££m London mews house doesn't equate to a rough deal but what would I know?

I neither like or respect SF, her financial circumstances are intriguing. She's traded on her royal connections. But she has never shat in her own doorstep.

The Channel 5 9pm documentary, Harry & Meghan: Going Separate Ways?

Rehash of the familiar story and the separation simply refers to branding. All the commenters were much more optimistic than we are about the future, apparently Meghan gave us a teaser of ARO and people are likely to be interested in getting an insight to her life (never mind that if it materialises it probably won't be filmed in their home) and how much she cares about her causes. Apparently Harry has realised that he comes across best when he's doing the royal work he loves and he's so passionate about his causes. Apparently the British public have missed this version of Harry and are looking forward to seeing him again.

Oh, and something that made me laugh, they mentioned that in 2023 Harry came to the coronation and made solo trips to the UK, which apparently heralds a more positive relationship with his home country. No mention that aside from the coronation, those trips were because he is suing his father's Government.

His trip back to see Charles after the cancer announcement was because he loves his Dad, no mention of talking to the press about it afterwards.

Appearing with W&C outside Windsor Castle was purely because of their devotion to the late Queen.

Hmm.

Glad I didn’t watch it.

It was OK at describing their initial appeal and popularity and their downfall. It was the analysis of more recent activity that was more dubious.

I think the affection for Fergie is that she always seems to smile.
Smile and the world smiles with you.

I do think it was a shame that she was never invited to Sandringham for Christmas dinner, even after her and Andrew moved back in together, and he took the daughters.
Bit of a weird dynamic going on there, when I think about it.

But fair play she followed HMQs mantra never complain never explain.

Oh yes I agree with this. Social media and the Americanisation of British culture in general tends to superficially collapse the distance between our two cultures, but in actuality we are very different and so Kate would have been able to grasp the RF's historical status more easily than Meghan. Meghan, however, likes to make much of her intellect, so she would presumably have been capable of learning.

The other thing Meghan failed to grasp about royal life (and I suspect Harry failed to teach her) is the unique (and frankly eccentric) social contract the RF has with the British public. It's not one of straightforward admiration at all. We agree to finance and support the RF, and in return we're allowed to vocally criticise them and even make fun of them (satire and mockery being a far more ingrained part of British social and political life than it is in the US). We also don't want them to talk too much about themselves. We want them to act as a cipher through which they highlight the achievements and struggles of ordinary people (which is why they visit hospitals, schools and community endeavours).

This is a world away from the lofty heights of American elite celebrity - the Obamas, the Oprahs, the Kennedys. They are treated with much more respect and straight out adoration. That's what Meghan thought she was getting through the RF - lofty elite celebrity through which she could sprout her word salad and be praised, never questioned; could wear as many different designer dresses as she liked and not be subject to snide remarks about the cost.

It's significant that the UK press was hagiographic about Meghan UNTIL she took private flights on Elton John's jet shortly after a speech about climate change, and wore a vast array of extremely expensive dresses. The media did what it does for ALL RF members - poked fun about hypocrisy and complained about the costs. That was to be expected and they'd have done it for any royal member because Meghan had broken the unique contract the RF has with the public which I described above. But because Harry never taught Meghan about that contract, she misinterpreted it as racism, and Harry ran with it, and thus the path to their exit was set.

Yes! From the outside it must look weird. We want a monarchy in tiaras who use tupperware for their cereal.

I think SF's treatment by the media in the 80s ("Duchess of Pork" and all that), has had a reassessment recently which has gone in her favour. Add in her relatively small divorce settlement, the Christmases at Sandringford she was sidelined from, time making her scandals seem less important and her general affability in interviews and it all works to make people feel more warmth towards her. She was a lot more annoying when she was having Fake Sheik scandals and finding herself with Oprah.

Indeed! It's something that republicans of all stripes find really difficult to grasp. We don't really admire and adore the RF as individuals: they are symbols through which we can interpret and accept life in all its joy (jubilees, Olympics, weddings, births) and tragedies (death, illness, divorce, violence). They are one of the last fulcrums on which our increasingly diverse and atomised society can converge and unite.

It's actually a really healthy way of conducting and managing the national psyche and is in my view the key reason why we are almost unique in the world in not having suffered a protracted and bloody revolution against the elites.

Meghan totally wouldn't have grasped this, I mean a lot of British people don't grasp it (or they do partially but struggle to put it into words, as I do). But the Queen absolutely knew it and so Harry would have and should have explained.

Another great point @GiveMeSpanakopita

I don’t think Harry has ever really thought about the RF in that way, genuinely. He just blundered about doing what he had always done, without too much thought. The way he has talked about them publicly since demonstrates that he really doesn’t understand his own family or the hierarchy or the constitutional role they play at all. The grown ups have been running the show and he’s just been there somewhere in the metaphorical nursery, being indulged. He couldn’t explain it to her because he hadn’t ever analysed it himself , and anyway she would never have listened. She has never cared at all about anything except herself and she doesn’t listen to advice or guidance. They are both arrogant and ignorant people.

I don’t think Harry has ever really thought about the RF in that way, genuinely.

I don't think he's ever thought about anything with any depth.