A Very Royal Scandal (Amazon Prime)

[MrsLeonFarrell]

Apologies if there is a thread about this.

I haven't watched Scoop, because Netflix won't work on my old TV box so I have no idea how this compares. I watched all 3 episodes and found it bizarre. I did like that it didn't include any royals outside the York family.

What struck me the most was how sheltered Andrew's team must have been to think him doing an interview was a good idea. I'm just a member of the public and I wouldn't have advised him to speak for himself going only by what I read about him before Epstein was even heard of. Why on earth would anyone advise him to do this? Why did they think it had gone well? And why has he not just retired out of the public view and accepted there is no way back.

The arrogance of some people is astounding. I don't even think it's a royal thing but more a monied sense of entitlement, although ironically he didn't seem to have much money.

Anyone else seen it?

I’ve just binge watched all 3 episodes. Very different perspective to Scoop.

I think part of the issue is at the start the Palace/RF believed Andrew. I think part of it will be that the RF, like others in the public eye, may have been targets of blackmail attempts/mistruths before so it is feasible they didn’t take the claims seriously.

What I find interesting that neither drama covered the Security Services who would/should have had records of dates and times PA met Epstein, Maxwell etc. For example it has been revealed RAVAC require 28 days notice if PH wants security when he visits the UK. I don’t believe senior RF members wake up and go I fancy flying to the USA today to stay with Epstein, visit his Island etc. It would be planned so they could work out shifts, risk assess etc. so it should have been known if PA was in Tramps or at Pizza Hut in Woking etc. on a certain day. Any discrepancies should have rung alarm bells.

That's a really good point about security. I wonder if that's why they ultimately settled?

I think the late Queen probably always believed Andrew but she chose to put the crown first. I suspect the rest of the family knew he was at least guilty of unwise friendships and taking money from dubious people. It's not like he was known as a nice person before this happened.

I haven;t watched it yet but as I understand it... conveniently... security records were destroyed/not available.

'Scoop' sent me to sleep.

I fully intend to watch this but I don't think any advisor could have stopped the randy one if he'd made up his mind this was the chance to clear his name. That said, he was desperate and easy to persuade.

Amanda Thirsk is the advisor credited with encouraging him to do it (possibly one of the indistinguishable daughters too?) but she fell on her sword shortly after.

Didn't stop him bringing her back as a trustee for the disgraced pitch @ palace
but she had to quit that too after charitable regulations were breached. Other irregularities too went almost unnoticed and certainly under-reported.

I don't hold a candle for Harold and his murky charitable doings but Uncle Randy seems to have flown much further under the radar.

Medical records too.

AFAIK the adrenaline induced non-sweating syndrome has never been reliably documented.

What I find interesting that neither drama covered the Security Services who would/should have had records of dates and times PA met Epstein, Maxwell etc. For example it has been revealed RAVAC require 28 days notice if PH wants security when he visits the UK. I don’t believe senior RF members wake up and go I fancy flying to the USA today to stay with Epstein, visit his Island etc. It would be planned so they could work out shifts, risk assess etc. so it should have been known if PA was in Tramps or at Pizza Hut in Woking etc. on a certain day. Any discrepancies should have rung alarm bells.

There probably would have been helpful records if the claims against Andrew had been made at the time, or a few years afterwards. As it was, the allegations were that he met Virginia Giuffre in 2001. Her case against Andrew wasn’t filed until 2021, however - 20 years later.

20 years after the event it is incredibly difficult to find records. Even if they still exist (and in 2001 we are surely talking about mostly paper records of security teams shifts and logs) you need to have an excellent archive index to find the records you need out of what could be thousands of boxes stored at an storage site somewhere. And storage sites cost money - most places quite reasonably choose not to pay to store commonplace business records like timesheets for more than a couple of years, to save costs. So they will have a document destruction policy that operates on a rolling basis, and there’s only ever so far you can go back.

(These issues are common to all old cases, not just this one).

As I said, given the 20 years between the events in question and the court case being filed, I don’t think this is evidence of a conspiracy. It’s completely normal.

In my old firm we used to keep things initially for 7 years. The joy when we could shred or get rid of old files and records!

I’ve just binge watched all 3 episodes. Very different perspective to Scoop.

I've binge watched all three eps today too, and have surprised myself by feeling sorry for Andrew. 😲

Hope I get over it by tomorrow.

Whether records are destroyed or not, his Chief Protection officer, back in 2020, tried to access his roster details from 2001 and other docs, under FOI and Data protection laws, because he disputed Andrew's account that he was 'at home' as opposed to Tramps nightclub then Maxwell;s home, after his famous Pizza Express visit.
The records were not provided, conveniently.
Of course, Andrew will have been duly protected as he was for most of his life.

It is fascinating that he lasted so long as an official royal. I remember Randy Andy, which was just ick, and Airmiles Andy which should have made people wonder a bit more about his lifestyle in retrospect. There were rumours for years about his dubious friendships and the way he behaved when the UK Trade Envoy but nothing seemed to stick with the public. I think I just wrote him off as an arrogant idiot and just thought, well lots of upper class families have one.

I think the difference with Harry is that he did things people wouldn't like in their own families and so it damaged his reputation more quickly. No one wants their private family information in the press, no one wants to be accused of racism etc. Whereas with Andrew, until Epstein he was seen as unpleasant but not really impacting lives.

What made you feel sorry for him?

I thought he came across right from the start an unpleasant so I'm interested in different reactions.

I don't think it's evidence of a conspiracy per se. I do believe there probably wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for digging up the minutae to support his story, if it even exists now. I don't imagine he was pleasant to protect so I can't see anyone volunteering to dig through archives.

I did feel sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie in the narrative though. Obviously we don't know what they think but I can imagine it's hard to believe these things of your father and the dawning realisation it might be true must be awful.

I didn’t watch the Interview because I knew it would be cringe, but I'm interested in watching Scoop and this to compare the narrative.

Andrew is a repulsive man and I believe Virginia Guiffre. The big scandal is all the high up American men who are being protected in this. It's interesting the only person who seems to be serving any time for this is Guiselle Maxwell (who is also repulsive and deserves everything she gets). Andrew is absolutely small fry in my opinion.

I find it incredulous that the only one doing time is GM how is this possible? Male privilege again

The only person currently in prison for this is a woman.
Andrew is repulsive but why no Clinton & Why no Trump questions?

The Royals are terrible scroungers. If they can spend someone else's money, they will. Look at the assorted dubious sponsors they allow to fund them and their pet projects. Awful people, all of them.

I watched the first episode, still reserving judgment. I worry that people will start to see it as factually accurate as they do The Crown. It’s a drama, nothing more.

Edited to add that as a drama I’m really enjoying the performances. Michael Sheen is such a talent.

His Chief Protection officer, back in 2020, tried to access his roster details from 2001 and other docs, under FOI and Data protection laws,

Amusingly, if in 2020 they had been able to come up with records of his roster details from 2001, they would have been in breach of data protection laws in still having them. One of the key principles is that you don’t hold onto data about individuals for any longer than is necessary!

Also, I presume his request would have been to the Met Police who are responsible for providing royal security, rather than to the Palace?

The Police refused.

Do you have a source for that, BustingbaoBun? You can’t just refuse to handle a data subject access or FOIA request.

Clever tactics also, possibly.

One noteworthy point about the allegations made by Giuffre was her choice of lawyer. She was represented by lawyer David Boies, who is very close to the Democratic leadership, and has defended several of the great and the good in court (and defended Harvey Weinstein in fact) but then switched sides from acting for the accuseds to acting for the accuser to represent Virginia Giuffre. For free, too.

I’m sure the fact that the cases Virginia Giuffre was subsequently advised to bring bring against men who allegedly abused her - that would be Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz - are outsiders to Washington and New York political and power circles is a complete coincidence…

The force has previously refused to reveal where the Duke's police bodyguards were that day, claiming the information could put national security at risk

That seems like the standard excuse when protecting members of the royal family

Watched Scoop - it was fairly low key really.

Wasn't going to watch this as well but sounds like its got a lot more bite so I probably will watch it as well .