A Very Royal Scandal (Amazon Prime)

[MrsLeonFarrell]

Apologies if there is a thread about this.

I haven't watched Scoop, because Netflix won't work on my old TV box so I have no idea how this compares. I watched all 3 episodes and found it bizarre. I did like that it didn't include any royals outside the York family.

What struck me the most was how sheltered Andrew's team must have been to think him doing an interview was a good idea. I'm just a member of the public and I wouldn't have advised him to speak for himself going only by what I read about him before Epstein was even heard of. Why on earth would anyone advise him to do this? Why did they think it had gone well? And why has he not just retired out of the public view and accepted there is no way back.

The arrogance of some people is astounding. I don't even think it's a royal thing but more a monied sense of entitlement, although ironically he didn't seem to have much money.

Anyone else seen it?

Aha. Information supplied by, or relating to, bodies dealing with security matters is one of the absolute exemptions to providing information under FOIA and Data Protection. That was parliament’s decision when they enacted the legislation.

So they didn’t refuse to deal with the request, they responded and stated that any relevant information was exempted from disclosure it seems.

The News Agents podcast has fascinating interviews with Emily Maitlis and with Michael Sheen. Can recommend.

I thought he came across right from the start an unpleasant so I'm interested in different reactions.

I agree he was portrayed as being very unpleasant, but the way it was done made Andrew look as if he truly believes he hasn't done anything wrong - at least as far as VG is concerned anyway.

I don't really like Emily Maitlis but I'll give it a listen. Thanks for the recommend.

I don't think he does think he's done anything wrong. When the late Queen died he took every opportunity to hog the mic, with no awareness of how he came across. He still thinks he can have an official life again.

What I don't think has occurred to him is this. Even if she wasn't trafficked (for the sake of argument) it was still disgusting for a man of his age and position to be having sex with a 17 year old girl. It still makes him looks revolting. He still visited a convicted paedophile, which makes him look arrogant and naive.

There is no gaming this for Andrew even if he didn't have sex with a trafficked teenager. (Which btw I think he did). A whole life of bad decisions has been exposed and he should just shut up and retire into private life.

What I thought interesting was the parallel with Matlis' life and her career at that time. It provided some dramatic focus and emphasised the themes.

I also really liked that the narrative was all about the York family and a couple of palace officials. They didn't drag Charles or the late Queen into it by making up conversations with them that we 'overheard'.

I agree that Andrew is a vile man, and I really don't have any sympathy for him whatsoever. I do feel for his daughters, but not SF as I'm sure she knows what was going on too.

I just thought it was interesting that my take from the programme was that Andrew wasn't lying when he said he didn't have sex with VG. The production (to me) made it look as if he genuinely either doesn't remember, or didn't do anything wrong in the first place.
They showed him as confused and angry rather than as guilty and angry/scared at being found out.

Like everyone else, I think he's guilty as hell, but that wasn't obvious (to me) from watching the programme.
But if I'd lived in Mars for the last 30 years and never heard of PA, VG or the whole story, and watched the Amazon prog, I'm not sure I'd come away with thinking he was guilty.

@KnickerlessParsons "Like everyone else, I think he's guilty as hell, but that wasn't obvious (to me) from watching the programme."

That's very interesting. Michael Sheen said that in order to play the part he had to decide for himself whether Andrew was guilty or not, but he didn't tell anyone what he thought.

I can't find this on Amazon prime. Can someone tell me where it can be viewed,

https://www.amazon.com/Very-Royal-Scandal-Season/dp/B0DCPCFD6S

This. How on earth can he not think it’s wrong by any stretch of the imagination? But I reckon a lot of men wouldn’t think it was wrong either judging by some I’ve acted for. 🤮

Yes, and...(putting on my armour here...) she got 20 years, which in the US may mean 20 years.

Now I'm not questioning the seriousness of her crimes or minimising them, but - the Moors Murderers only got 30 years originally! They do not mess about in the US.

I think she, Epstein and their acolytes are repulsive and need/needed punishment, but 20 years? I would have thought 10 would be reasonable. I will now get behind my sofa to avoid the missiles aimed my way!!

I'm only agreeing with the above poster that the Grisly Ghislaine seems to have taken one for the team, and that, compared to UK sentencing, she's certainly going to pay for her crimes.

There was a very brief flashback of him dancing in a nightclub, the one he said he wasn't in. I think that was supposed to indicate guilt but they couldn't be more explicit from a legal point of view.

Yeah, leaving aside trafficking, he isn't the only predator out there. I'm glad I'm not young and was never pretty.

What a clever approach. I'm glad he hasn't told us. It makes for more interesting viewing. My guess would be that Andrew is guilty of being a disgusting sleazebag, but technically not a paedophile.

But I would also guess that he genuinely thinks he's innocent. He's so, so stupid.

And before anyone (thank God, no-one has yet) compares
Andrew's 'crimes' to Harry's midemeanours: I don't think there's any difference of opinion on here, is there, that Andrew is just awful, irredeemably so, and that's that? With Harry there's a lot more to discuss!!

It wouldn’t surprise me if he’d slept with so many ‘willing’ young women and posed for so many photographs with hundreds of people that he has absolutely no memory of Virginia - so that in his mind he feels justified in saying he’s innocent.

He’s always come across as completely entitled so I assume he believes it was his right to act with no thought at all to the ages of or the vulnerable position of any of the women Epstein introduced him to.

@CoffeeCantata The interview is on the News Agents podcast. There's also one with Emily Maitlis that's worth a listen. Neither did anything to decrease my fangirlishness about them both!

I thought it was a birthday day party at pizza express? The birthday boy or girl would remember. I’ve never understood this.

That's irrelevant. It's what happened afterwards that matters. He says he went home . One of his security detail and Guiffre says he went to Tramps, then back to Maxwell's London mews house where the infamous picture was taken of him with his arm around Guiffre and Maxwell in the background.

‘Scoop’ is more focused on the narrative around the working class Newsnight booker/assistant played by Billie Piper, who does a lot of the hard work in persuading Prince Andrew and his team to go ahead.
This newer version is longer, far more Crown-like, and focuses a lot more on Emily Maitlis, who co-produces it. You can tell, as she is looked on a lot more favourably.
I found the behind-the-scenes stuff with Andrew entertaining. Michael Sheen plays him as an entitled monster, and yet still manages to illicit a tiny bit of sympathy for this awful man-child. Fergie comes across as a greedy and entitled enabler.
I would class myself as Royal supporter.
Not so much a fan of Harry and Meghan.
However, by the end the questions I had were mostly about the late Queen. Whilst her reputation remains pretty much unblemished, it’s clear she made a rod for her own back with this indulged son. Even the way he speaks to others is awful.
I believe the late Queen had words with Meghan about how things are done and the way staff should be treated. But it’s clear those instructions didn’t have to be followed by Andrew.
What’s clear is that he has remained above the law, and whilst he has lost his position he still lives a very entitled life.
His mother should have dealt with him, just as his older brother should now. Trying to cover up for him isn’t good PR in this day and age.
All I can say is without William and Catherine the Firm’s future would be finished. And they will be lucky to carry on as times change.

I agree. Years and years before this all broke, apparently it was said the Queen had misgivings about his trade envoy role and his friendship with JE.
The trouble is she did nothing about it and whatever I think of the Queen good or bad there is no getting away from the fact she enabled her awful son.

By the point she had misgivings he had set his behaviour as entitled, greedy, vain, boorish and rude with endless backhanders and deals with dodgy rich businessmen.
I have no sympathy with him whatsoever, he had decades of living the high life and apart from movement being restricted now, he still lives a rich privileged life.
No sympathy with his ex or daughters either I'm afraid.

That is interesting.

As a recent PP has said, he probably thought VG was above the U.K. age of consent, so ok to have sex with, with absolutely no thought as to how a girl the same age-ish as his daughters came to be in a position where she was socialising, and having sex with, 40 year old men.

So in that sense, in his mind, he hasn't done anything illegal, although to everyone else his actions are repulsive, immoral, vile etc. Even worse really because he was a prominent member of a national institution close to the hearts of many of the U.K. population.

And there's the whole question of his friendship with Epstein. 🤮

The Royal family seem to have an entitled, arrogant offspring in most generations. It is also true in many aristocratic families as well if you look at history. Whilst of course parenting is important there seems to be something about being born into privilege that produces hardwired arseholeness.

I’ve been following the trial of the French couple where the husband was (by his account) bored and so drugged his wife in order that she could be raped by literally tens of their neighbours, and then gaslit her when she tried to work out why she had holes in memory and unexplained injuries etc. Not all men, I know - but there are clearly plenty of utterly entitled predators out there hiding in plain sight….it’s horrific.

I agree that’s is such a grim sickening case. That poor but brave woman. Just when I think men can’t sink lower. It may not be all men but it’s a hell of a lot of them.