Will the Duke of Sussex title die out ?

[Twistybranch]

I’m the first to admit not understanding exactly how Royal Dukedoms work.

It’s my understanding that Harry can pass his Dukedom to Archie? happy to be told I’m wrong.

But usually what does come hand in hand with such a title is a family seat and the expectation that you have a son. Hereby setting up a system that ensures the dukedom lives on.

Neither of these exist in Harry and Meghans world. Yes, they have a fancy McMansion and millions in the bank but they don’t have a family seat of the Duke of Sussex to pass down. I also can’t see the message at home where it’s all about empowering women and lili expressing herself, that it’s important to have lots of kids and make sure they are boys and Archie will inherit the lot. Which is what happens in these aristo families right?

So the Dukedom will pass to Archie. Lilibet won’t be passed any title. Instead of rejecting the titles, Harry and Megan have set up the kids to understand that male primogeniture is what rules while given out a modern, progressive, empowering women message.

But Archie will have a Dukedom of a country that he is unlikely to live in and doesn’t have a family seat there. He isn’t going to be versed in the ways of how these aristo families sustain themselves over the centuries. So is he going to make sure he marries, has boys, has something to pass on to these boys. I can’t see that happening in the world Harry and Meghan have created. So the title dies out? Or does this pass on to someone else?

Oh it must be entire seconds since someone started another thread of nonsense to bash Harry and Meghan.

they aren’t handed down as such….they swop and change all the time…..Phillip was the Duke of Edinburgh ….now Edward is the Duke of Edinburgh

It's not bashing anything, though? It's a question. I'm curious too.

Don't really see how this bashes Harry and Meghan.

The Dukedom goes to Archie in due course when Harry dies, hopefully many decades from now. If Archie has boys then the dukedom will in turn pass to them. It's a completely sexist system so daughters don't get a look in. If Archie has no legitimate sons then the title dies out and doesn't get passed on unless the monarch decides to recreate the title. Unlikely to happen in our lifetimes I imagine.

I don’t think it matters as long as there is a legacy that both Archie and Lilli can build upon when they reach adulthood. I do believe the Sussex family will remain relevant in a new way beyond the royal background due to the uniqueness of their situation. I hope that ‘showing up and doing good’ through the Archewell Foundation is something that is worth handing down to the next generation. From small acorns large oak trees do grow. One day Prince Harry will no longer be with us so I want to follow his efforts and see the good he brings to the table until then.

https://archewell.org/news/showing-up-doing-good-in-colombia/

It's a hereditary title so will pass to Archie on Harry's death, and then continue down Archie's family line.

It's an interesting question. Harry seems totally resentful of his family, but also very keen not to give up the titles and associated privileges that have only come to him as a result of who his family are.

Archie and Lilli already have the titles Prince and Princess - it will be interesting to see if they use it to make money or live a normal celebrity offspring life. Harry could have given Archie the title Earl Of Dumbarton iirc but rejected it. Hopefully Archie and Lilli will find their own successful paths and not continue their parents’ feud with the Firm by monetising their titles - this is ideal for both sides.

I think that Sussex will die out like York and see no problem with that. 🤷‍♀️ Nobody is clamouring for Duke of Windsor to be revived as a title either. if Harry had been Duke of Edinburgh then I suspect that Charles or his mother would have changed the rules so the title reverted to the crown after Harry but I can’t see Edward doing a Harry.

This.

Duke of York and Princess Royal titles are different they go to second Son and Eldest Daughter - when the previous person holding them dies.

I think they made Duke of Edinburgh title non hereditary when it went to Edward which is unusual but they may start doing more of in modern world - so that won't pass to his son.

So if Archie has no legitimate sons, does this mean the title reverts back to the crown or that another male in the family gets the title? sort of Downton Abbey, when the cousin inherited the title.

Good question and I haven’t a clue. 😂

Title goes back to the crown and is available to be awarded to someone else. :)

Thanks!

It will go to the male nearest the direct male family line. So if, e.g. Lilibet had a legitimate son, it would go to him. If neither of them did it would go to the next male in the wider family line, so it could end up with one of William's descendants, for example.

I suspect from now on it will be like Edward. For holder’s lifetime only and can’t be passed down.

I don’t think so but happy to be corrected. Think only to Archie and his male descendants.

No they are generally handed down.

Duke of Edin was an exception - it went to Charles and as king he can fling it at someone else. In this case, Edward only has it for life, his son won’t get it. But Harry’s is the normal variety his son will inherit. He may not use it though.

Lilibet can't pass the title down as she's female, and William's children couldn't inherit as only Harry's descendants can't inherit. Only Harry's male line descendants can inherit.

No it won’t, senior titles like Dukedoms can only go through the male line, and they can only go backwards to find the nearest male lone heir to the generations after the title was originally granted, so if Archie doesn’t have a son, it dies out.

It is hereditary at the moment. I do think it would need better in the long term if all royal Dukedoms were bestowed, as Edinburgh was recently, only for the lifetime of the current incumbent. It would really cut down the number of quasi royals hanging around and make sure we don't get into a Princess of Bourbon with Two Sicilies* type situation with English royal titles.

Having said that I think Harry would be deeply offended if it was changed in that way so probably best to leave it at the moment.

*used as an example because I find it hilarious to have to go through life stuck with such a Gilbert and Sullivan title.

According to Wikipedia, the Duke of York title is the same and would have gone to the first son of Andrew, but because he only had daughters, it will go back to the crown when he dies. They did something different with the Duke of Edinburgh title for Edward and he can’t pass it down to his son. Prince Phillip passed it down to Charles and it reverted to the crown when Charles became king and then he was able to give it to Edward.

Yes - it goes down the male line till they run out of Males descended from Harry.

There are few titles in UK that can go down female lines or skip through them but they tend to created that way so they can do that and I haven't heard they did that with this Dukedom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peerages_inherited_by_women

From the Wiki page for "Duke of Sussex" (title)

The title was first created in 1801 and given to Prince Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex, the sixth son of King George III.This title became extinct in 1843 when Prince Augustus Frederick died without any sons. The title was revived in 2018 and bestowed upon Prince Harry

It's a bestowed title initially - so it is not like a hereditary peerage passed down to the nearest male relative, which is the Downton Abbey scenario; but once bestowed is inherited by the son (and only the legitimate eldest living son of the bloodline, so adoption is excluded) of the line down from the male upon whom it was originally bestowed. if Archie has no sons, then it will revert to the crown.

Edited for typo

Rather like the Duke of York, unless it goes to a grandson. (I can't recall which of Andrew's daughters has children or what sex they are.)

I can’t see Harry and Meghan forcing the issue that Archie must be married, have sons and he will inherit the lot. They live in liberal California, with a mother who is an activist for empowering women and girls.

In the UK I doubt these aristo families explicitly tell this to their sons, but they will all know the score and how it works because that’s the world they live in. Plus the incentive is there, you get the house and estate and you carry on the line.

Archie won’t have this message or incentive. What’s stranger is that the title of Duke and Duchess are clearly important to Harry and Meghan. However, I cant understand how they could reconcile male primogeniture with their progressive activism.