Will the Duke of Sussex title die out ?

[Twistybranch]

I’m the first to admit not understanding exactly how Royal Dukedoms work.

It’s my understanding that Harry can pass his Dukedom to Archie? happy to be told I’m wrong.

But usually what does come hand in hand with such a title is a family seat and the expectation that you have a son. Hereby setting up a system that ensures the dukedom lives on.

Neither of these exist in Harry and Meghans world. Yes, they have a fancy McMansion and millions in the bank but they don’t have a family seat of the Duke of Sussex to pass down. I also can’t see the message at home where it’s all about empowering women and lili expressing herself, that it’s important to have lots of kids and make sure they are boys and Archie will inherit the lot. Which is what happens in these aristo families right?

So the Dukedom will pass to Archie. Lilibet won’t be passed any title. Instead of rejecting the titles, Harry and Megan have set up the kids to understand that male primogeniture is what rules while given out a modern, progressive, empowering women message.

But Archie will have a Dukedom of a country that he is unlikely to live in and doesn’t have a family seat there. He isn’t going to be versed in the ways of how these aristo families sustain themselves over the centuries. So is he going to make sure he marries, has boys, has something to pass on to these boys. I can’t see that happening in the world Harry and Meghan have created. So the title dies out? Or does this pass on to someone else?

Richard III was Duke of Gloucester. Edward IV's second son was Richard Duke of York, so his nephew, one of the Prince's in the Tower. Richard III was of the House of York and held the North for his brother so had a stronghold in York.

He definitely did it, no amount of evidence will convince me otherwise.

Absolutely nobody wants to take on the grifters ‘legacy’.

Indeed. The best thing for Archie and Lily would be a good education leading to some sort of meaningful employment

Archie will inherit his father's title if he is still a UK citizen when Harry dies. But as I understand the US constitution. if he has become a US citizen he can't hold a foreign title, and any future son of Archie who was a US citizen could not inherit.

I never thought about that, the effect of
US citizenship on the title

Minor point: Alexander, Earl of Ulster, not Andrew ...

I don’t know whether he did it or not, but if there was irrefutable evidence that he didn’t then you should probably change your mind in that particular case 😂

That's why Harry won't become a US citizen. He will lose all his titles and, by extension, so will Meghan. Lily would retain her Princess title as she was already a US citizen when it was bestowed to her through her grandfather ascending to the throne. Archie may already be a US citizen because through his mother he may have dual citizenship - not entirely sure how that works, but if he doesn't have to become a US citizen, or became one when his parents moved but before QEII died, then he would retain his prince title (and any titles he inherits from Harry as long as Harry has them when he dies).

No it wouldn't, it would only pass down Archie's line not Lilli's. If Archie has no son's the title will die out and the monarch has the option to award it elsewhere.

I heard it mooted about that as the Duke of York title should traditionally pass to Prince Louis, and with the Duke of Edinburgh title now being none hereditary, D of E may be reserved for Princess Charlotte’s husband. Depending on who she chooses to marry and whether he’s a ‘player’ for the Monarchy, it could help fill the top jobs in the Royal family going forward into the next few decades. In time Princess Charlotte should receive The Princess Royal title following the current holders’ (very sad) departure.

Princess Charlotte will be the Princess Royal in due course.
As pp have said, the Dukedom of Sussex will pass through Archie's line. Princess Lilibet will not inherit another title, however, hers must be one of the most distinctive of royal names, so she'll always have doors opened. Interesting.

Their titles mean nothing in America. Archie has no lands with the Sussex title. His inheritance is whatever money Harry leaves him. He needs a good education, career counseling, and a good job.

Doors opened? Her parents titles don’t seem to be opening many desirable doors in Montecito these days - the likes of Gwyneth Paltrow have pointedly snubbed them and Harry and Meghan do seem a bit of a laughing stock. They will likely prove a social liability for their children as well, so I’d hope those apples fall a long way from the tree and that Archie and Lily have something more going for them than those tenuous (and possibly temporary) titles from a kingdom they’ve never known.

Any limitations to his use of the title in the US would not have any bearing on his right to it in the peerage of the United Kingdom.

It's by no means a settled question that a United States citizen cannot have a foreign title. The actor Christopher Guest is a US citizen and he is the Lord Haden-Guest in the UK, which by the way makes his wife, Jamie Lee Curtis, Lady Haden-Guest.

Princess Charlotte will be the Princess Royal in due course

Likely, but not necessarily. If George becomes king while Princess Anne is still alive, he might want to bestow it on a daughter of his own.

I’m guessing that Charlotte will get a title - Countess I suppose - when she marries so her kids have something to inherit. If Louis’ got that and she didn’t, I don’t think that would be acceptable anymore.

In order to become a US citizen, you must renounce the title. Christopher Guest was born in NYC. His mother was American. He therefore had US citizenship from birth. He didn't have to become one.

I think it is time that all of the hereditary titles like duke, earl, lord, viscount and lady are abolished. There's no need for titles in a modern society.

This is the current US Oath of Allegiance :

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-j-chapter-2#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%20hereby%20declare%2C%20on%20oath,the%20United%20States%20of%20America

Archie also has US citizenship from birth through his mother.

I think that’s like the US saying you can’t be a duel citizen as an adult, they can’t do anything about it - lots of people are duel citizens and if the other country they happen to be a citizen of also gives them a title then it’s theirs.

US citizens can certainly have dual citizenship. And Archie doesn't have to be naturalized because even though he was born outside the United States, his mother is American.

There’s nothing in becoming a US citizen that says you have to renounce a title (that would be bizarre, given the US doesn’t have them). Anyway there’s no mechanism for renouncing a title, you just don’t use it.

If Harry becomes a US citizen, he will have to renounce his allegiance to the UK. Which means he could conceivably have to renounce his rights in the LOS.

Archie was born in the UK to an American mother, not on American soil. He is a bit more complicated :
https://nl.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/child-family-matters/crba/#:~:text=Child%20born%20in%20wedlock%20to%20one%20U.S.%20citizen%20parent,not%20need%20to%20be%20consecutive.

Honestly, for Archie, with his title and a dollar, he can buy a cup of coffee in the US (at a bodega).

The US says that, but lots of people born of an American parent as Archie was hold duel citizenship, because there is nothing the US can do about it - it cannot control what passports other countries issue.

(Not that US passport control care, though they will moan at you for travelling in the US on a non US passport, if they notice it on the system.)