Will the Duke of Sussex title die out ?

[Twistybranch]

I’m the first to admit not understanding exactly how Royal Dukedoms work.

It’s my understanding that Harry can pass his Dukedom to Archie? happy to be told I’m wrong.

But usually what does come hand in hand with such a title is a family seat and the expectation that you have a son. Hereby setting up a system that ensures the dukedom lives on.

Neither of these exist in Harry and Meghans world. Yes, they have a fancy McMansion and millions in the bank but they don’t have a family seat of the Duke of Sussex to pass down. I also can’t see the message at home where it’s all about empowering women and lili expressing herself, that it’s important to have lots of kids and make sure they are boys and Archie will inherit the lot. Which is what happens in these aristo families right?

So the Dukedom will pass to Archie. Lilibet won’t be passed any title. Instead of rejecting the titles, Harry and Megan have set up the kids to understand that male primogeniture is what rules while given out a modern, progressive, empowering women message.

But Archie will have a Dukedom of a country that he is unlikely to live in and doesn’t have a family seat there. He isn’t going to be versed in the ways of how these aristo families sustain themselves over the centuries. So is he going to make sure he marries, has boys, has something to pass on to these boys. I can’t see that happening in the world Harry and Meghan have created. So the title dies out? Or does this pass on to someone else?

Archie was born in the UK to an American mother, not on American soil. He is a bit more complicated.

And as the linked information shows, Archie meets every single one of the requirements for US citizenship for someone born outside the US. He does not have to be naturalized.

Both Andrew and Edward has inheritable titles a dukedom and an earldom.

Andrew Duke of York has no heir to take the title after he dies. His grandsons can't take it as they are via his daughter. So it will revert to the throne. Had he and Sarah had a son that son would have become Duke of York on Andrews death.

Edward was Earl of Wessex before gaining the higher title of Duke of Edinburgh. His son (previously Viscount Severn ) now has the inherited title of Earl of Wessex. The Dukedom of Edinburgh had not been made inheritable so James won't get that title when Edward passes he will retain the Wessex title and any sons of his will inherit this on his death. His sister Lady Louise is unlikely to get any title (though technically like Beatrice and Eugenie) she is entitled to call herself Princess Louise as she is the granddaughter of a monarch though a male line)

I was literally pondering on this the other day. Will Louis ultimately become Duke of York or will Charlotte get Duchess of York because she is next in line? Or did the changes so that Charlotte could become 3rd in line mean that now Beatrice gets it? OR will they decide that it's a bad look on modern monarchy? I, personally, thought that it was too soon for the Princess of Wales title to be used and now it just looks a bit, I dunno, cursed!

Courts in the US have held that taking this oath does not preclude a naturalized citizen from having dual citizenship. What is important, though, is that when traveling, they enter the US using their US passport.

You can 100% be dual citz in the US. Me and all my family are. And you can technically keep your title although I wouldn't be surprised if William decides he wants to change that. The only thing you can't do is serve in the other nationality's armed forces.

How or whether peerages pass down is determined by the Letters Patent. I assume that the LPs creating Andrew Duke of York provided that the inheritance would be to males only, which has been the norm in the peerages of England (less so in Scotland). But the LPs are in the discretion of the monarch, so that could be different in future creations.

. Explains all the princesses of Wales and yes it can feel a bit cursed.

Charlotte is unlikely to get the York title it would be a break with tradition
What is likely to happen is she eventually will get the princess Royal title. And Loius. Eventually will become Duke of York.

However neither are certain to happen as they would both need to get the titles bestowed to them.

No, titles (with a few exceptions) go down the legitimate male line only, so if Andrew had had a son he’d have got it, as he doesn’t it reverts to the crown. I think it will be a while before it’s given to anyone else..

Oh you know he will. Charles would have done it already if it wasn’t for the broken relationship. I mean it looks well silly anyway now. Harry should not have more privileges thn the rest. Life peers are definitely way to go anyway. Only children and siblings of monarch should be Prince or Princess. What’s the difference between Zara Phillips, Princess Beatrice and Lady Louise. Actually I warrant Zara’s the most famous. Most people don’t know the difference between the Princesses and no one knows who Lady Louise is.

So you are OK if Harry swears his allegiance to the US while still trading on his title?

What happened to the Cambridge Dukedom when William became Prince of Wales?, did it just cease to exist?
Seems a bit silly that it was only used for about 10 years but I guess they needed a title to give Catherine until she became Princess of Wales!

Yeah I know Mumsnet is full of Sussex bashing threads this week. The trolls are probably seething over their successful Colombia tour.

They live in liberal California, with a mother who is an activist for empowering women and girls.

About 8000 children are married in California each year and not a word from 'feminist' Meghan. 80+% are girls.

www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/

@Twistybranch "
But usually what does come hand in hand with such a title is a family seat and the expectation that you have a son."

There are loads of titles that have nothing to come with them and no expectations.

A few hundred years ago land was handed out by the king, so if he was pleased enough with you to make you a duke he would usually hand you out some hefty parcels of land as well (taken from someone who had pissed him off...).

These days a) hardly any new titles are created except life peers, and b) the monarch can't simply reassign a few thousand acres to please themselves.

Although if H&M had hung around a bit longer they would probably have got a house (a very nice house) in the country. Similar to Gatcombe Patk etc

He is still Duke of Cambridge
He is
Prince of Wales
Duke of Cornwall
Duke of Rothesay
Duke of Cambridge
Earl of Strathern
Earl of Chester
Baron Carrickfergus

I think!

Yes to what Spanieleyes says above. If you have a lot of titles, the convention is you just use your most senior one - hence William is now styled as The Prince of Wales, with the more junior titles still existing but in the background.

(This was all visible in what was presumably pre-choreographed updates to Kate and William’s @ kensingtonroyal social media profiles following the death of QEII. They were described as “The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge”, but once QEII died and Charles became King, William automatically inherited the Duke of Cornwall title. So their accounts were updated to say “The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Cornwall”. The next day, after Charles bestowed the Prince of Wales title on William - which wasn’t automatically his - they were updated again to “The Prince and Princess of Wales”).

In the normal aristocracy, it would be common for one of the junior titles to now be used by his oldest son as a “courtesy title”. As the Duchy of Cornwall is linked to being the Prince of Wales, I suppose the Duke of Cambridge title would be considered the appropriate junior title? So George could now be styled as the Duke of Cambridge, I suppose. Except as he’s already HRH Prince George, he doesn’t need a courtesy title.

(This convention of only using the senior title handily avoids the whole “Daenerys Stormborn, Princess of Dragonstone, The Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lady of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the realm, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains etc etc “ issue 🤣 )

@Serenster - that title is brilliant, though!
If George gets married while his father is still PoW, I suspect that he and his wife will be Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

There’s nothing anyone could do about it, he can be a duel citizen if he wants.

Anyway, why not? It’s just a title, it doesn’t mean much.

😁
It would be a bit of a mouthful!

It's clearly very important to him, though. It seems to have given him significant opportunities and privileges.

Sure but I can’t see why anyone else would get hot under the collar about him becoming a duel US citizen, which is what the PP is asking

Yes, I've no idea what Harry's status is. I assume he has, as usual, got special privilege.