Mother of Pat Tillman has criticised the decision to give Prince Harry the memorial award at ESPY

[PrincessMee]

Mary Tillman says " There are recipients far more fitting. He publicly disrespected his family , ran away from service to his country. He is unworthy of this award"

She feels there are recipients far more fitting.

I think she speaks for many.

The smokescreen whataboutery derailing?

Noted. I've been noted to death.

Seen.

Because critical thinking. And eyes. And shit.

Alas not(e).

So you should know better.

As I watched Harry and William grow up from here in the US, I had one perception of him. Now, thirty years later, I have another. My perception has changed due to his actions and personality, my life experiences, and the increased reporting about his life and beliefs ( some provided by him). History is not static. People change. Historical knowledge alters over time.

Yes, she and most of Europe did in the early 1930s when Hitler and his party’s funny mannerisms were seen as just that - funny. Because people back then were no better than people right now at knowing what will happen in the future.

Rather showing up support of Meghan and Harry as the refuge of the terminally ignorant there, TheFirmBiscuit

Well, good on your Dad, genuinely. The fact remains that the warning voices against Hitler (including Churchill) went largely unheard, partly because of the desperation to avoid another world war by people who'd lived through the last one.

While you're on the Yad Vashem site, look up Princess Alice. Fascinating and brave lady.

The suits hid a lot of it.

Funny how another Suit encouraged him to share his actual self with the world.

Grateful for that at least.

We can see him for what he is.

But but Mein Kampf! 😱😱😱 a new one for the SS (how apt!) bingo card! 🤣

Actually, AN Wilson compared Spare to Mein Kampf. I think his tongue was firmly in his cheek….I think 🤔

In 1925 in his biography Mein Kampf Hitler laid it all out, in graphic detail his views on Jews.

Anti-semitism was rife, across all strata of society in the 1920s and 1930s. It certainly didn’t start with the Nazi party (And didn’t end there, either)

Did you know that pioneering car maker Henry Ford’s weekly newspaper launched a vicious campaign in the US against what he termed “The International Jew”? He accused them of everything from threatening the capitalist system to undermining the moral values of the nation, and finally he even held them responsible for World War I. He didn’t turn out to be a Fascist leader able to implement a campaign of extermination, though. I suppose you would argue people shouldn’t have been buying cars too?

A nice arc - it wasn't my intention.

www.thenational.scot/news/23241549.prince-harrys-book-spare-compared-reading-mein-kampf/

Lots of German association. Kaiser, head writer and SS member for Celebitchy is a perfect example. Is her allegiance a coincidence?!

In case it needs making clear, I don't believe Harry wore that uniform because he was or is a fascist. I think he wore it because he was an absolute idiot and he really, really should have known better. He got something of a pass at the time for being young and the good feeling remaining for both him and William following Diana's death (something I think he is still relying on)

His use of a racist slur that had not been vaguely acceptable (thankfully) for decades by that point is is IMO more problematic.

Bear in mind MK wasn’t translated into English until 1945 and Hitlers words were changed before publication in 1925 to make him sound more ‘cultured’
Also don’t forget Harry went full Nazi for a laugh.

@Uricon2 more relevant now is his inability to take full accountability and responsibility for his actions. He is just not capable of shouldering anything. People would respect him so much more for him acknowledging his mistakes and learning from them.

The Plot Against America by Philip Roth, a fiction on an alternative timeline where American aviation hero and Nazi sympathiser, Charles Lindenburgh, becomes president in the 1930s is a great exploration of that time and the political climate.

I was aware and even had a go at reading the book online but it's unreadable. It's referenced tangentially in spirit in the Remains of the Day. The Daily Mail and Lord Rothermere infamously supported the Britsih Union of Facists under Sir Oswald Moseley. Lest we forget. But Harry, in my world anyway is just a lost naughty boy tormented by his past and his upbringing and deserving of our pity not our hate.Though I realise I'm in the minority here by some measure. I've noted that at least !

If Andrew is going to be (tediously) dragged into this thread, as a complement to my post above about Harry's 10 year military career, here's a summary of Andrew's 22 years:

1979 - joined Royal Navy as a midshipman (equivalent of second lieutenant in the Army) signing on for 12 year commission. Attended Dartmouth College. Also completed Royal Marines Commando course and earned a Green Beret.

Pilot training (Gazelle and Sea King)
1981 - promoted to sub-lieutenant (equivalent Army lieutenant)
1982 - completed training, posted to 820 Naval Air Squadron, HMS Invincible. Flew operationally with them throughout the Falklands war
1983 - posted to RNAS Portland, trained to fly Lynx
1984 - promoted to lieutenant (equivalent Army Captain) and deployed with HMS Brazen (inc operational patrols) plus appointed as a personal ADC to HMQ
1986 - lieutenants' staff college, Greenwich; then training as a helicopter warfare instructor
1987 - 1989 helicopter warfare officer 702 Naval Air Squadron; later officer of the watch and assistant navigation officer HMS Brazen
1989 - 1991 flight commander and Lynx pilot HMS Campbeltown (deployed NATO force, North Atlantic)
1991 - passed squadron command exams, and attended Staff College, Camberley
1992 - promoted to lieutenant-commander (equivalent Army major)
1993 - passed ship command exams. Commanded HMS Cottesmore
1995 - posted as senior pilot 815 Naval Air Squadron
1999 - promoted to commander (equivalent Army lieutenant colonel)
2001 - desk job MoD, diplomatic directorate. Retired

Quite.

Stupidity I will grant you. Fuck all to do with youth as some claim.

Given that some are at great pains to point out similar lack of judgement within his own family in the past, you would think he would have been bright enough to think about his actions.

Hard no there.”

The racism is, however, unforgivable.

And didnt his mother chastise him in childhood for speaking to/about people in a derogatory manner?

He is ill thought of for good reason.

He was and remains to me, a racist self serving poor excuse of a human. No amount of whataboutery will alter my opinion.

I know that he was drawing a comparison between his bond with Diana and the Tillmans’ bond-but I do wish that he’d stop talking about Diana. She’s been gone for so long now.

"But Harry, in my world anyway is just a lost naughty boy tormented by his past and his upbringing and deserving of our pity not our hate."

He's 40 in September. He's got access to the best mental health care available. There comes a point where people have to be judged as the adults they are and he is way past that.

I don't hate him BTW, at all. I wish he would grow up, stop blaming everyone else for his issues (including Kate, who wasn't even around during his upbringing) count a few of his manifold blessings and actually stop talking and start doing, because the perpetual victim look is not a good one.

Yes, it’s was viewed as simply ignorant and insensitive. Not hateful. It’s his pompous lecturing and finger pointing of now that intelligent people find tedious. Marrying a hot, rich, light-skinned actress who never experienced racism and having children that look just like you doesn’t make you an authority on race.

Sounds like he was trying to create false intimacy and understanding with a massive audience watching on in order to make himself look empathetic. You don’t tell a mother who lost her child that you know what it feels like.