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The royal family

Guess who's back?

1000 replies

DrJoanAllenby · 07/05/2024 13:26

Guess who's back? Back again?
Shady's back....

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13391363/prince-harry-arrives-uk-without-meghan-invictus-games-meet-king-charles.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
43percentClaw · 08/05/2024 13:47

Fortunately this isn't the only initiative which supports vets, and while I always admired the concept there are others available if the whole thing becomes toxic through association - unless of course Harry's ditched by those with better judgement

Well quite @Puzzledandpissedoff

It Is already tainted by association and is becoming increasingly more about H&M than the veterans.

This is not how it should be.

IcedPurple · 08/05/2024 13:48

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 13:43

We have no idea if he is safe or not. None of us are security experts.
Doesn't stop people posting as if they are though.

Well quite.

None of us are security experts. Neither is Harry. Yet he seems to think he knows better than the actual experts, who have an excellent track record in keeping royals and VIP's safe.

RAVEC have said that Harry has a special arrangement whereby his security needs are assessed on a case by case basis. Given that he does not live in the country and holds no official role, what could be unfair about that? Harry believes he knows better, hence spending a vast amount on a pointless vanity case which has cost the taxpayer a considerable sum of money.

BigWillyLittleTodger · 08/05/2024 13:49

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 13:43

We have no idea if he is safe or not. None of us are security experts.
Doesn't stop people posting as if they are though.

Well if he is unsafe he will get security as RAVEC have said it’s on a case by case basis. We don’t need to be security experts, that info is in the public domain.

smilesy · 08/05/2024 14:02

IcedPurple · 08/05/2024 13:48

Well quite.

None of us are security experts. Neither is Harry. Yet he seems to think he knows better than the actual experts, who have an excellent track record in keeping royals and VIP's safe.

RAVEC have said that Harry has a special arrangement whereby his security needs are assessed on a case by case basis. Given that he does not live in the country and holds no official role, what could be unfair about that? Harry believes he knows better, hence spending a vast amount on a pointless vanity case which has cost the taxpayer a considerable sum of money.

Edited

This. This is what I am basing my assessment of him being safe in the UK on. The actual experts view. I have no doubt that he will be kept safe in Nigeria too, but that still doesn’t stop the fact that he is visiting a country with a travel advisory against it making a mockery of his claims not to
be safe in the UK

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 14:06

BigWillyLittleTodger · 08/05/2024 13:49

Well if he is unsafe he will get security as RAVEC have said it’s on a case by case basis. We don’t need to be security experts, that info is in the public domain.

No it is not. The criteria by which RAVEC makes decisions is secret. Even the membership of RAVEC is secret although we know members of the Royal Family sit on it.
We have no idea if criteria (whatever it is) is fairly applied or if Royal Family personal wishes prevail.

Thedom · 08/05/2024 14:13

Yes, and we know the Queen sent a letter to Ravec asking them to support Harry's request for security, with the caveat she wasn't 'interfering'.. So I think we can assume Ravec do fairly apply their rules and don't succumb to the wishes or influence of the RF.

MrsFinkelstein · 08/05/2024 14:15

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 13:18

It was covered in some of the media trials. Stories that could only have come from the Palace. Read about the trials.

Nope. It wasn't.

The only story that was ever confirmed as being "leaked" from the Palace was when William met Camilla for the 1st time. What happened was that Camilla's private Secretary told her husband about it, he told a friend who told another friend who was a journalist at the Sun.

Camillas Scretary apologised and immediately resigned.

I followed the trials closely. Harry alleged plenty, nothing was proven and if anything, the trial showed how unlikely it was that the Palace leaked as it showed just how many possible other "sources" the stories had. And everything alleged in the trials were pre-2016. So absolutely nothing to do with Meghan.

So once again.

What stories are you claiming the RF leaked?

IcedPurple · 08/05/2024 14:15

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 14:06

No it is not. The criteria by which RAVEC makes decisions is secret. Even the membership of RAVEC is secret although we know members of the Royal Family sit on it.
We have no idea if criteria (whatever it is) is fairly applied or if Royal Family personal wishes prevail.

You do know that Justice Lane comprehensively dismissed Harry's allegations about the conduct and membership of RAVEC?

I guess Harry knows better than him too?

BigWillyLittleTodger · 08/05/2024 14:16

The criteria by which RAVEC makes decisions is secret. As of course it should be, it still doesn’t alter the fact that we do know that his security is decided on a case by case basis. As to whether the Royals have any input if I recall correctly the Queen tried to keep his security but it was rejected.

MrsFinkelstein · 08/05/2024 14:17

A follow up point.

Some of Harry's claims of stories that must have been leaked about him, the trial found the origins of these came from:

Official KP press releases.
Quotes from interviews he gave himself.

Are those the ones you're talking about?

Needanewname42 · 08/05/2024 14:21

BigWillyLittleTodger · 08/05/2024 13:24

And when Harry visited Charles last time he did have security from the airport, I’m pretty sure Charles wouldn’t expect Harry to catch an Uber.

Exactly
My second paragraph - I do not believe the cost of security is the issue.

I believe the real issue is King Charles 🤴 does not trust his own son to keep his top lip over his bottom one and keep 🤫 😶 about family issues.
The second Harry knows anything so does the rest of the world 🌎

SirChenjins · 08/05/2024 14:28

I believe the real issue is King Charles 🤴 does not trust his own son to keep his top lip over his bottom one and keep 🤫 😶 about family issues.
The second Harry knows anything so does the rest of the world

Absolutely this. There’s no way Harry (or Meghan or whoever is acting as their unofficial mouthpiece that day) wouldn’t throw some out personal details about Charles or Catherine to the world at some point.

upinaballoon · 08/05/2024 14:39

CoffeeCantata · 08/05/2024 13:13

YesIknowIcare · Today 12:41
@AssignedUnimportantAtBirth wasn't it said Meghan made Kate cry leading up to her wedding when it was in fact Kate who made Meghan cry.

Again, it seems you've missed a huge amount of comment on this since the accusation was made.

I've read a couple of accounts, one from one of the tailoring staff who were there, and I know which one rings true for me.

Remember that it's crucial to Meghan that she is always the victim.

Didn't Meghan say, in the Oprah interview, that Kate sent her flowers? Didn't Meghan say, in the Oprah interview, that they both cried?
What I do not remember in the Oprah interview, is Meghan saying that they both cried at the actual fitting. I think it is possible that Kate did cry at the fitting, out of the tension of the whole thing, and I think that when she received the make-up flowers from Kate, Meghan also cried, out of the tension of the whole thing. Leaving out the opinions of the general public and the spokesmen/women/advisors et cetera, has anyone, ever, said absolutely specifically, that they both cried at the fitting, entirely because of the behaviour of the other one? Yes, I am paying attention to detail, and not ashamed of it.

AnnieSF · 08/05/2024 14:43

This is now and that was then.

I believe that Charles has gained more insight into the whole situation in the past few months. When you are very ill and think you are going to die you reassess your life. It is understandable that Charles saw Harry at the beginning of the year during that first flurry of panic. However as Charles has had his treatment it is likely that Charles's rational feelings have taken over. He has witnessed the devastating illness of the Princess of Wales and will have seen firsthand the effect on his Grandchildren. As you get older you have no tolerance for people who bring negativity to your life. Hence why Charles is having a garden party today and his weekly meeting with Rishi Sunak. Life goes on in the UK without Harry.

upinaballoon · 08/05/2024 14:47

And another thing - the Oprah interview was in a March, so either just over 3 or 4 years ago, but nothing like 'coming up to 4 years since', whoever it was up-thread who said it.

MrsFinkelstein · 08/05/2024 14:48

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 14:06

No it is not. The criteria by which RAVEC makes decisions is secret. Even the membership of RAVEC is secret although we know members of the Royal Family sit on it.
We have no idea if criteria (whatever it is) is fairly applied or if Royal Family personal wishes prevail.

Members of the Royal Family absolutely are not members of RAVEC. Members of the Royal Household (eminently qualified Civil Servants who serve The Crown) are.

They are significantly outnumbered by other (also eminently qualified) members.

Edit: RAVEC apply the same criteria to everyone that they are assessing for security needs. Harry's trial disclosed the late Queen asked them to consider him for special status, they weren't influenced in any way to continue his security. He does get unique treatment in that they review his status regularly on a case by case basis. No one else gets this. How much more special treatment do you want him to get? Who else misses out?

Guess who's back?
MegsNaiceJam · 08/05/2024 14:49

Pity the fool that thinks kidnapping Harry would be a good idea. They wouldn’t last five minutes having to listen to his incessant whining about how he is considerably worse off than anyone else.

upinaballoon · 08/05/2024 14:50

What exactly is Harry attending today, Wednesday 8th May, 2024, to do with Invictus, and where, please? I DID google and could only find stuff about yesterday, so far.

Sageandparsley7654 · 08/05/2024 14:50

MrsFinkelstein · 08/05/2024 12:45

Except William, Charles, Andrew and Edward have also served time in the Armed Forces, Andrew also was deployed into an active war zone.

Exactly the same as many current and ex serving members of the Armed Forces.

Or don't they also deserve to wear their medals for Service to their country?

Seriously?

Members of my family serve so happy to answer this.

No, I don’t think Edward does as he dropped out of his Royal Marines training having only completed one third of the course. Absolutely no shame on him as it is an extremely hard thing to do, and a lot of pressure as his Cambridge place depended on it, but I don’t think he deserves medals for other things no because he never passed his final training. Funnily enough, he still ended up going to Cambridge.

Andrew did serve but I agree with other senior navy and forces members who urged that Andrew should lose his military titles. I believe more than 150 ex-Royal Navy, RAF and Army personnel even wrote to the late Queen to say the duke’s position was ‘untenable’. So no I don’t think he should be parading about with medals on either, or parading about at all actually after indulging in behaviour “non becoming”.

William and Harry very much deserve to wear their medals.

Charles did reasonably well in the navy by all accounts and was described as “personable and hard-working” but he did leave the navy three months after a serious gaffe which took place when he was in charge of HMS Bronington. He had a good service record on previous ships so who knows whether he was at fault or not but he received criticism from his superiors for the incident. It’s unclear whether he was meant to leave at that time or not. So yes he can wear his medals but that’s not to say he didn’t receive preferential treatment.

Princess Anne is not on your list but hasn’t served but still parades in uniform with a shoulder full of medals for honorary roles. She was made Admiral in 2012. In 2020, she was also made a General in the British Army and an Air Chief Marshal in the Royal Air Force.

She may well do an excellent job with great aplomb and had great fun leaping on and off horses during the Coronation - all marvellous you might say - but she is essentially wearing a costume. I doubt she feels remotely ashamed about it though as she doesn’t strike me as the reflective type. And the country never questions it!

Similarly, how must Edward feel when lined up alongside real soldiers? He looks to
me as if he suffers with a conscience but who knows.

It’s all so fundamentally unfair. That’s my main onjection.

No one can tell if Charles and Andrew deserved to reached the positions they did in the Navy on merit or because of their family. Which is bad for them as well as us. I think we can guess whether or not they made it to Oxbridge on merit.

Your question encapsulates exactly what I detest most about the monarchy MrsFinkelstein that they assume our respect for reasons based on artifice not merit. And they require jewels, tiaras, elaborate robes, gold carriages even fake military uniforms in some cases to suspend the disbelief!

It’s profoundly unfair on the ordinary bright young man from Preston who is ambitious to work his way up to Air Vice Marshall on merit alone. Ditto the young woman from an average comprehensive school in Walsall who couldn’t get an Oxbridge place because a Royal had taken it. Even if an extra space had been created for a Prince, what message does this send out to young people today?

That the greatest privileges are bestowed on those who are rich and of high rank?

That life is unfair and you had better get used to it now?

And most people on here, by supporting the RF, are also cheering on this fundamental inequity.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/05/2024 14:51

(Invictus) Is already tainted by association and is becoming increasingly more about H&M than the veterans
This is not how it should be

You're quite right it's not how it should be, which is why every time I hope that once - just once - they'd avoid putting themselves front and centre with some silly story

And practically every time I'm disappointed, but it doesn't stop me hoping that one day they might realise there are some with greater needs than their own.
I'll probably hope in vain though ...

smilesy · 08/05/2024 14:55

upinaballoon · 08/05/2024 14:50

What exactly is Harry attending today, Wednesday 8th May, 2024, to do with Invictus, and where, please? I DID google and could only find stuff about yesterday, so far.

It’s a Thanksgiving Service for the 10th anniversary of the games. At St Paul’s todaySee here

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/05/2024 14:56

upinaballoon · 08/05/2024 14:50

What exactly is Harry attending today, Wednesday 8th May, 2024, to do with Invictus, and where, please? I DID google and could only find stuff about yesterday, so far.

I think it's today they're having the 10 year commemorative service at St Paul's?

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 14:56

@MrsFinkelstein Apologies. You are right. It is members of the Royal household that sit on Ravec, not members of the Royal Family. So it has included the King's Private Secretary, and Senior Aide to Prince William. And these non-security people have equal standing in any decision making as the police representatives on Ravec.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20221016/281586654510029

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20221016/281586654510029

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 15:02

Sageandparsley7654 · 08/05/2024 14:50

Seriously?

Members of my family serve so happy to answer this.

No, I don’t think Edward does as he dropped out of his Royal Marines training having only completed one third of the course. Absolutely no shame on him as it is an extremely hard thing to do, and a lot of pressure as his Cambridge place depended on it, but I don’t think he deserves medals for other things no because he never passed his final training. Funnily enough, he still ended up going to Cambridge.

Andrew did serve but I agree with other senior navy and forces members who urged that Andrew should lose his military titles. I believe more than 150 ex-Royal Navy, RAF and Army personnel even wrote to the late Queen to say the duke’s position was ‘untenable’. So no I don’t think he should be parading about with medals on either, or parading about at all actually after indulging in behaviour “non becoming”.

William and Harry very much deserve to wear their medals.

Charles did reasonably well in the navy by all accounts and was described as “personable and hard-working” but he did leave the navy three months after a serious gaffe which took place when he was in charge of HMS Bronington. He had a good service record on previous ships so who knows whether he was at fault or not but he received criticism from his superiors for the incident. It’s unclear whether he was meant to leave at that time or not. So yes he can wear his medals but that’s not to say he didn’t receive preferential treatment.

Princess Anne is not on your list but hasn’t served but still parades in uniform with a shoulder full of medals for honorary roles. She was made Admiral in 2012. In 2020, she was also made a General in the British Army and an Air Chief Marshal in the Royal Air Force.

She may well do an excellent job with great aplomb and had great fun leaping on and off horses during the Coronation - all marvellous you might say - but she is essentially wearing a costume. I doubt she feels remotely ashamed about it though as she doesn’t strike me as the reflective type. And the country never questions it!

Similarly, how must Edward feel when lined up alongside real soldiers? He looks to
me as if he suffers with a conscience but who knows.

It’s all so fundamentally unfair. That’s my main onjection.

No one can tell if Charles and Andrew deserved to reached the positions they did in the Navy on merit or because of their family. Which is bad for them as well as us. I think we can guess whether or not they made it to Oxbridge on merit.

Your question encapsulates exactly what I detest most about the monarchy MrsFinkelstein that they assume our respect for reasons based on artifice not merit. And they require jewels, tiaras, elaborate robes, gold carriages even fake military uniforms in some cases to suspend the disbelief!

It’s profoundly unfair on the ordinary bright young man from Preston who is ambitious to work his way up to Air Vice Marshall on merit alone. Ditto the young woman from an average comprehensive school in Walsall who couldn’t get an Oxbridge place because a Royal had taken it. Even if an extra space had been created for a Prince, what message does this send out to young people today?

That the greatest privileges are bestowed on those who are rich and of high rank?

That life is unfair and you had better get used to it now?

And most people on here, by supporting the RF, are also cheering on this fundamental inequity.

I agree with this But what I particularly object to is the Royal Family failure to support Invictus and its veterans, whilst parading around in military uniforms and medals.
Alongside supporters of the Royal Family who are keen to have a go at Invictus and by extension the veterans who take part.
It is quite clear none of them care at all about Invictus or the veterans who take part.
And as I said I do feel sorry for Cleverley who has served and has been working hard to try and bring Invictus to England and is having his efforts undermined.
It really is a culture of lets bash Harry and Meghan and who cares what other casualties this creates in its wake.

Sageandparsley7654 · 08/05/2024 15:02

SluggyMuggy · 08/05/2024 14:56

@MrsFinkelstein Apologies. You are right. It is members of the Royal household that sit on Ravec, not members of the Royal Family. So it has included the King's Private Secretary, and Senior Aide to Prince William. And these non-security people have equal standing in any decision making as the police representatives on Ravec.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20221016/281586654510029

And everyone believes of course that the rules would or could not be changed in an instant should do eone senior enough in the RF suddenly deem it necessary.

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