Harry’s security case

[smilesy]

The judgment is in Harry loses High Court challenge over UK security protection www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68421992 See here

@smilesy I apologise - that wasn't directed at you, I mean that this nuance is missed more generally, in the wider media etc. I appreciate your take on it throughout these threads.

Don’t worry! I didn’t take offence. I think it was a point well worth clarifying

IcedPurple IPP status is an outcome of having senior diplomatic status. Not the other way round. It's not something that can be 'reinstated' at the decision of a court

Fair enough, though I think my wider point still stands even if the court is unable to reinstate his IPP status if H was successful at JR RAVEC would have had to review their decision. If that had turned out to be that their initial decision was incorrect it may well have led to a reinstatement of his original security. However, had (if applicable) IPP status had been reinstated then that would have meant the US would have to also provide this to H. As per my point raised and copied below.

It makes sense he is challenging the UK as I think as a family that is where there chances of having full security reinstated were far more likely than Meghan applying as a US citizen for state funded security in America.

Mylovelygreendress yes I was absolutely certain he himself had stated this. Also I know Charles funded them for a year until March 2021 and I believe this was for their security? So makes a bit of a joke that " my father cut me off financially" being an Adult Millionaire in his own right. They had a whole year to reconsider. Their choice but too keen to keep pointing the finger at others.

Yes exactly

Fair enough, though I think my wider point still stands even if the court is unable to reinstate his IPP status if H was successful at JR RAVEC would have had to review their decision. If that had turned out to be that their initial decision was incorrect it may well have led to a reinstatement of his original security.

As the judge said, even if the JR had been successful, it's highly likely RAVEC would have come to the same decision all over again.

And his 'original security' was always conditional. As 5th in line, he is simply not important enough to be guaranteed security regardless of perceived risk. Even had he remained as a working royal, it's very likely his security would be downgraded at some point.

However, had (if applicable) IPP status had been reinstated then that would have meant the US would have to also provide this to H. As per my point raised and copied below.

Yes, but as I said, a court of law cannot 'reinstate' IPP status. It imposes significant responsibilities on signatory nations, which is why it is only granted to those with recognised diplomatic credentials. Not a CHIMPO and his jam making wife.

Harry may be 5th in line, but if it came to it I think it would be much more likely that the UK would become a republic that Harry ascend to the throne.

Yes, but as I said, a court of law cannot 'reinstate' IPP status. It imposes significant responsibilities on signatory nations, which is why it is only granted to those with recognised diplomatic credentials. Not a CHIMPO and his jam making wife.

I think this goes to the heart of the problem somewhat. Harry really doesn’t understand what an IPP is. He just assumes that because he is Prince Harry, he must be of that status. And his wife agrees. Neither of them bother to inform themselves properly about lots of things

I think the bit about the Royal residence having a “public” entrance “in full view “ is very telling

don't royal residences have back doors/private entrances? The bin men/Tesco delivery/whatever don't rock up through the main gates of BP, do they? Camilla isn't photographed every time she goes out for a private trip somewhere. I'm sure H could have come and gone without being seen if he'd wanted to.

I don’t think Harry ever wanted to leave, he clearly dragged it out when Megan was pushing to go, from what he said, and the half in Half out would have been him wishing to stay royal. But Megan was going. That was it, she was going, and he had to pick. And he picked her,and avoiding a battle over custody. He wouldn’t have wished the kids raised without a mother, and he’d not wish to be a part time dad. I don’t think he realistically had another option but to go with her due to the kids.

giving him security I think is solidifying his royal position, that even though he’s left and isn’t a working royal, in his mind, if he had the security he previously had, it would have shown he still had his position. Removing it says a lot about his reduced position. And that’s what’s hurting him.

the fact he’s lost so much on leaving is caused much of his spiteful behaviour, the fact the royals would not let them do what Megan wanted, to monetise it.

he is clearly a very unhappy man, who lashes out without thought and behaves in a spiteful and malicious manner, and I genuinely doubt Megan is much happier as they have failed so drastically and publicly in what she was hoping to achieve in the states.

but yes I think the security fight, is at heart about him wanting his position as he sees it recognised,

They cannot give him back his security or he and Meghan would be getting up to all sorts of mischief here
There would be tours royaling round the country whipping up dissent - an alternate royal “modern” family with a lot of poor me thrown in for good measure
Harry is very cross and wants to cause trouble and punish his brother and father the only way to clip this behaviour is for them to control the security

Perhaps I’m missing something but surely Harry’s visit to Charles would fall squarely into RAVEC territory. The royal residences are protected anyway, so the issue is presumably Harry’s protection to and from. I can’t see RAVEC refusing this request, subject to the required notice period. They have always said his security needs would be considered on a case by case basis.

But the royals don't 'control the security'. If RAVEC's risk assessments consider him to need security and if he provides the required notice, he will receive it.

But I agree that a lot of the reason he is so aggrieved at the lack of on demand security is because, as you say, it means he can't flounce around Britain doing fake royal tours with a bespoke security escort. Same with Frogmore. Now any time he visits, he either has to stay in a hotel or make prior arrangements with Charles. No more swanning in and out of a royal estate. I bet that rankles with him big time.

So true, smilesy, but then I'm convinced Harry regards himself as a "senior diplomat" - or at least the equivalent - and so deserving of the IPP status

Too bad he isn't, not least because he doesn't possess the skills, but then when you've been surrounded since birth by folk telling you how absolutely wonderful you are I can see that this'll play with even a well balanced mind never mind Harry's

It was very pointed that Meghan didn’t leave the Windsor Suite at Heathrow when she was in transit from LA to Abuja.

Who knows whether that was a petulant “I’m never setting foot in that country again until they apologise to me, and neither are MY children”, or whether it was down to security and she and Harry both agreed for this to be the cas

If they’ve received threats in the past, I can well imagine they’ve been aimed at her and/or her children. Harry’s still a Prince of the realm, not quite traitor territory.

Sadly, it’s equally possible that the first option is true. You read threads like that on here all the time: my DIL and SIL are withholding my DGc from me for xyz reason, AIBU to be upset?

Most likely is that both reasons pair nicely. She knows she’s massively unpopular here, derided amongst her in-laws (openly reviled by some) and perhaps it’s mutual. She must hate going anywhere near the U.K. or having anything to do with the RF, and encouraging Harry’s security complaints offers her a neat way to stay away.

Harry’s still a Prince of the realm, not quite traitor territory.

Princes of the realm are often the most dangerous traitors. Perhaps he ought to have been offered accommodation in the Tower?

It is such a shame that KC has barely seen two of his dgcs. Based on how he interacts with William's children, he looks like a lovely grandfather. It's also such a shame for the children themselves. They are basically being denied the opportunity to know part of their heritage.

If they’ve received threats in the past, I can well imagine they’ve been aimed at her and/or her children.

Very possible, but if there were any recent, credible threats, then security would be provided. RAVEC would hardly want anything to happen to them on British soil, regardless of those who would have it otherwise. I think the fact that it wasn’t known that Meghan stayed at Heathrow until after the fact gives the lie to the fact that they can’t slip around unnoticed when they want to

I completely agree . When you see the Wales DC with the Tindall DC etc , it is clear they are all close , as are their parents .

I see this differently. I don’t think Charles will feel any particular attachment to the Sussex children because (to the best of my knowledge) there has never been any relationship formed. That’s possibly sadder for them than it is for him. He has plenty of grandchildren and step grandchildren in his life, they have no grandfather.

Edited to add, it’s just occurred to me they might be encouraged to talk to his photograph as they apparently do to Diana’s, both weird.

I wonder what lies H and M will tell their children why they have no relationship with their grandfather who is a king.

He does have other grandchildren, but that doesn’t mean that they are not all important to him. I’m sure most grandparents would like to see all their grandchildren as equally important. But I agree that it is particularly sad for the Sussex children. It’s almost as if all their grandparents are dead apart from Doria

I think the fact that it wasn’t known that Meghan stayed at Heathrow until after the fact gives the lie to the fact that they can’t slip around unnoticed when they want to

True, but of course AFAIK in the case of the Nigeria trip staying at Heathrow meant a handful of hours behind the wire in the Windsor suite (under T5) between the inbound and the outbound flights.

I can’t speak from personal experience but I think it’s human nature to bond more with those you have contact with than those you don’t know at all. Perhaps I’m jaded by the threads I’ve read complaining about DGP who favour a sibling’s DC and don’t seem interested in others. I think people would like to believe they love equally and fairly but they often don’t.

Oh no, I’m sure people don’t love equally and fairly. For one thing, there can be personality clashes even with those in our own family. What I meant more was that I’m sure he sees them as important even if he hasn’t been able to bond with them. I’m sure he’d like the opportunity to get closer to them to find out how they do, in fact, get on

Depending on UK law, he might need on signed letter from Meghan allowing him to bring the kids to the UK:

https://www.usa.gov/travel-documents-children#:~:text=U.S.%20citizen%20children%20traveling%20abroad&text=You%20may%20also%20need%20a,parents%20or%20their%20legal%20guardian.