45 minutes

[portocristo]

So Harry flew for 11 hours and then spoke to his father for 45 minutes ? Charles then bobbed to Sandringham by helicopter and Harry checked into a hotel. I mean wouldn't you think Harry would have gone to Sandringham with Charles maybe ?

It’s all very odd and just confirms that they have no solid advice and their PR is all over the place. The short visit with a police escort from the airport which took place as the helicopter was literally waiting at Buck House with blades whirring is no more explicable now we know he had a gig the following evening. If he thinks it would have been a problem to do the vegas thing that’s part of his delusion imho. He lives in the US and that gig is what passes for work in his world these days. Why wouldn’t he continue to work because his dad has cancer but is being well cared for? No one thinks PW shouldn’t have gone to the Air Ambulance do as far as I know. The King is fine until we’re told otherwise and life goes on. Stupid boy just made himself look like a right plonker. He’s clearly not rational.

And not a word about the African Parks scandal 😃.

If they had any sense at all, which they don't, they'd have gone for an American version of what the Tindalls have. No official duties and no taxpayer funding, so they aren't constrained by their role and don't 'owe' the public anything. But they still get to appear at the big family events, so have the prestige of royal associations.

Harry and Meghan could have built that into a 'brand' much more high profile and lucrative than what the Tindalls have. Instead, they went scorched earth and scuppered the only selling point they have. They may have made money in the short term from 'Spare', the Netflix 'documentary' and so on, but slagging off the family you've barely seen for 4 years is a limited resource, especially for Meghan as she was only royal for about 5 minutes. To say they lack strategy would be an understatement.

It’s all very odd and just confirms that they have no solid advice and their PR is all over the place.

Harry is almost 40. Why does he need 'advice' on how to conduct his family affairs?

I think it's clear that they never listen to advice anyway, even when they've paid a lot of money for it.

I mean ."his office" could have released a statement acknowledging he wished his father well blah blah, then he could have gone to Vegas first instead of acting like he was in an action film with all his jetting in and out and escorted cars what a bloody farce.

The royals know all about the optics. The Queens grandfather changed their (German) name as obviously during the war it wasn't the best connection to have. I don't think Harry is the evil genius that some people make out. They're just a dysfunctional family like many others

I don't think anyone thinks Harry is any sort of genius.

😂

His ''office''.

I'm still amused by the mental image of him alone in a room his office spinning about in his swivel chair between announcements 😂

Or juggling outside the window.

It is, however, undeniable that if Harry came on Mumsnet and talked about his childhood and the way his parents behaved, he would he advised to go NC and to keep his children away from them......

I mean nobody !

@CurlewKate and if any other members of RF came on to talk about H’s antics they would be told to go NC with him

I don't think that's 'undeniable' at all. Harry had a difficult childhood in many ways, as did William, but there's no doubt that his parents loved their sons very much and did what they thought was best for them despite their own difficult upbringings.

But of course, if Harry wants to go 'NC' and accept all the consequences of such a choice, that's entirely up to him.

Sadly, regardless of what may have been his intentions, he is being ridiculed and it isn’t difficult to see why.

Like many other endeavours, it does look like it was all about the optics.

I get why he wanted to visit but it should have been kept quiet. Announcing everything just seems to be self serving.

I hope he continues to work away at dinners, awards ceremonies etc. Good luck to him on that score.

Agree, there's been toxicity on both side. However, you could argue that the RF's parenting and cultural failures are the product of centuries of dysfunction, whereas Harry's is the product of wanting to make millions to fund his new LA lifestyle. And before anyone leaps in, think about it - he could've done a one-off interview talking about his awful upbringing and left it at that. But the doc, the book, the books still to come – it's all driven by $$$$$$$$.

Both W & H have taken steps to raise their children as best they can despite their their troubled upbringing too.

That is all anyone can try to do. To just try to do it better.

Yet both are criticised for it on here whatever they do.

If it was all as toxic as has been said? I’m surprised he hasn’t went NC.

I think lots of people have difficult. I definitely did. I think it did negatively affect me in some ways. I have quite low self esteem and I know I would have got better grades at school. However it has made me an empathetic and compassionate person which has helped me in relationships with people and as a parent and it's also helped me in my work. I didn't have the luxury of thousands of pounds of therapy. I just chose not to let an unhappy childhood ruin the rest of my life.

@IcedPurple "I don't think that's 'undeniable' at all. Harry had a difficult childhood in many ways, as did William, but there's no doubt that his parents loved their sons very much and did what they thought was best for them despite their own difficult upbringings."

I bow to your superior knowledge. I see no evidence that Charles loved his sons. Diana? Who knows? Hard to see through the mists of glamour and PR and dis function.

Turtlerussell · Today 11:01

@Bookmark1111

That’s a very good point. I think some have taken him too seriously and think he really despises his family. I don’t think he does, he’s had a petulant flounce, had a moan about them. We’ve all been there, when younger though! His has been on a grander scale and he’s taken money for it - and thats the part that others find distasteful. One thing bickering and falling out, another to monetise washing of dirty laundry and do it so publicly knowing the others can’t answer back in the same way.

I agree with you both here.

As has been said many times on MN: Harry is dim, and seems to have the mind of a toddler. I deplore what he's said and done over the last few years, but I don't think he had the nous to understand the gravity of what he was doing and foresee the terrible consequences either for himself, his children or his family.

Meghan is a different kettle of fish - she's undoubtedly clever, but also (I'm sorry - I HATE parroting psycho-therapy terms but...when the cap fits like a glove...)an absolute textbook narcissist. She hasn't as much skin in the game as Harry has with his family/the population of the UK and really, he's got far more to lose than she ever had. She's been able to use Harry's unresolved childhood trauma and his general resentment about his secondary position in the RF to create not just a family rift which may never be healed, but horrendous negative publicity on the international stage which will also never quite go away. It's backfiring on them now, but I take no particular pleasure in that - it's really a tragic situation with both families alienated and the poor children (Archie and Lili) left with no-one but Doria in the extended family.

I don't know what to wish for for them (mainly the children). If the marriage ends, possibly some kind of relationship might be established with their relatives in the RF. I can't see either Meghan or the RF having any kind of contact or relationship in the future. Poor little mites.

I would say the 'evidence' is that Charles' elder son has a good relationship with him, and his younger son did until just a few years ago, to the point where he was very happy for him to walk his bride down the aisle.

But obviously, none of us really knows what goes on in complete strangers' lives. Yet you seem to think it 'undeniable' that Harry would be advised to go NC with them. Do you just take Harry's word at face value, despite him having been shown to make factual errors on several occasions? Without knowing what other family members might have to say? It seems you do.

You know it's only when you look back at these - what were at the time - individual occasions that you now see the bigger picture and it's not a pretty picture.