Endgame Part 6

[Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar]

A turkey, absolute balls of stuffing or a right Christmas cracker? We'll let you decide. Please keep the discussion interesting, civilised and relevant - the Holiday Armadillo is lurking!

Previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4960903-omid-scobie-endgame-part-5?page=1

I wonder who leaked the fact that concern/best wishes were sent…

It's a mystery for the ages @ArcaneWireless !!!
How will we ever know? 🤣🤣🤣

I was fully expecting to get a shoutout to a florist and a full listing of components as we did for Philip s funeral wreath.

@Gardeningtime (and others!)

Thank you for the really thoughtful and nuanced posts here - how refreshing, instead of the usual slanging match - oh, and the reduction to 'It's racism', too.

Looking into my crystal ball...I really don't see any chance for reconciliation if that means turning the clock back and going back to how things were just after the Sussex wedding. H & M's behaviour has been beyond appalling and they spitefully attacked and defamed so many people that a 'sorry - can we come back?' just isn't going to work.

I suspect the marriage will end in the near future, but whether H & M will separate officially is another matter. Someone posted on here recently to point out that Harry will benefit from another huge financial legacy at the age of 40, so Meghan (however sick of him she might be on a personal level) will probably hang around until then. Also she needs to consider how viable her brand would be without him. In shallow Hollywood terms she's past her sell-by date as an actress, surely. And the Sussex brand itself is so tainted now - it's almost a curse to be connected with it!

I hate the fact that those children are cut off from their relations, and for their sake only I hope there'll be an opportunity for them to come to the UK and meet their cousins and other relations. But I don't know how that could really happen - Catherine will never want any kind of relationship with Meghan and who can blame her? I think Charles will go soft over Harry - and again, I understand that up to a point - but I hope he doesn't extend an olive branch to Meghan. Harry's mantra is 'What M wants, M gets', so I don't see any chance for a real reconciliation between father and son until H & M break up, when no doubt the Crown will end up paying a whacking settlement to Meghan...in a sort of blackmail arrangement, I imagine - because I'm sure she'll need paying off if she's not to write some very nasty memoirs.

So I see H coming back, tail between legs, at some point and Charles giving him a little house to live in quietly on a modest allowance. I don' t want to see him return to being a royal and having official duties - he's shown us what a vain, whiney twit he is and few people could take him seriously any more. I don't see the 2 of them returning to the royal fold because, at the first sniff of any kind of problem or perceived slight etc, they'd have gathered enough material to blackmail the RF again. At the moment they've run out of that precious resource, so they're keen to return and garner some more.

Meghan will never fit into royal life. Counter-intuitively it needs an absolute absence of ego - you have to do what you're told to do, wear what you're told to wear and keep your mouth shut about your personal opinions. You are there to serve, not to spout your views or to make events etc about you personally. I just don't think she ever 'got' that, and never could.

I suspect the root cause was over estimating their own importance ans status, and conversely under estimating the queen and the strength of her feelings on the role of royalty in society

They thought if they put their half in half out statement out publicly, the queen would have no option but to say nothing, as they’d already told the world and let it go ahead. To save reputation and to keep them partly in. That herhands would be tied. She’d then have these big stars in the monarchy. That this is what would make them happy so she’d not deny it. They even tried to flatter her, in their minds, with the collaboration comment, to try to ensure she let it go ahead.

they clearly didn’t anticipate the queen was not going to be bullied or put on the back foot in this way, that she was not remotely interested in celebrity, that it wasn’t their place to redefine the British monarchy, and that she would quickly and severely take them out as working royals if they insisted on monetising and using it to gain celebrity status

that was their first wrong move. They underestimated the queen and her steadfast focus and belief in a life of service, her power, and the fact she would protect the wider role of royalty before she protected Harry and Megan.

it was a huge first mistake that ultimately led to every other mistake that followed .

Really great posts @Gardeningtime and @CoffeeCantata .

Yes, however many gazillion times one says “Sussex Royal” to the Supporters, they refuse to acknowledge that interlude. It just didn’t happen.

Ah, yes the "carving a progressive new role within the institution" - their words. Not chased out, not forced to move.

I agree . Excellent summaries.

If you think about it, the celebs queued to meet the queen. Not vice Versa. From Daniel Craig to Marilyn Monroe, they lined up to meet her over the decades. Courtsied in her presence. The queen did not line up to meet the celebs. There was only one British queen. There were hundreds, if not thousands of a listers over the decades.

the desire to hang with a listers and to have that status, to live amongst them, I fully put down to Megan not Harry, she saw being a list Hollywood royalty as more desirable than being British actual royality . She was star struck. This was what she wanted for herself. Her dream from starting in acting. To be rich and famous. And marrying royalty could give her a foot in the door of that world. Hence why she invited them all to her wedding. Even though she’d never even met them. She was chasing the a list celeb dream long before they even married.

Harry never showed any inkling this was his thing, and I’m still not convinced he does today. He’s sought extreme levels of petty vengeance on his family for casting him out for following her and Archie, for not letting them do it.

But I’m really not convinced Harry ever wanted to be a big celeb or hang out with them.

I'll second that, and how nice to read thoughtful discussion instead of the frequent mud-slinging and silly comments about "We all know why you really don't like her ..."

Noticeable, too, that the keener supporters are now absent when Harry does something unarguably foolish - even on the "Harry withdraws lawsuit", which was genuine news rather than rehashing

Given @ajandjjmum's words "the Sussex supporters on the MN threads continually said that they wouldn't do an interview, they wouldn't write a book, they just wanted a nice, quiet life of freedom, and those of us who were more cynical were absolutely slated" perhaps some feel there's no longer any point?

Sussex Royal website still live for anyone interested:

The Official Website of The Duke & Duchess of Sussex (sussexroyal.com)

Neither of these two (H and M) are getting any younger. I have no idea what the future holds for them. I would expect that the two of them will hang onto each other for grim death as to do otherwise would negate the Romeo and Juliet story. They are relatively late to parenthood so have many years of that ahead of them which hopefully brings them much joy and happiness. I can't see Harry ever coming back to the UK and into the RF fold. I am sure William has his own very private thoughts about Harry and they will include sorrow as well but as we all know there are sometimes family that we just have to say "enough" to. As people age, they have less tolerance for this too - who wants to surround themselves with drama and negativity? William and Kate have a lifetime of positive living to do within the UK and with their family.

As for the "concerns and best wishes" which have allegedly been sent to Kate and Charles from H and M - well H and M are in a no win situation. If they do nothing they are seen in a bad light. If they do send then they are hypocrites but whose fault is that ? Their own. Who wants a get well wish from abusers?

Yes, it’s weird it’s still live, it’s not been updated since 2020 and not used, as the queen had them agree to not use the brand, but weird they just left it laying unused apart from adding a link to archewell.

ah there we are. They are so predictable with their well wishes.

I can’t work out what the future holds either and find the whole thing quite fascinating from a human behaviour perspective..

i can see harry clinging on to Megan for dear life, but im really not sure about Megan. How important is the a list dream to her, as it does look like she would now be more successful if she left him. She is clearly not by his side in much of his endeavours. Only invictus.

There is no way either of them think they’ve been successful in the USA. Now , sure, they likely blame everyone else for that, but the fact it’s a huge failure will be something they are both keenly aware of.

as being some celeb isn’t Harry;s dream, and he’s given up so much to be with Megan, he will cling on. But Megan holds all the cards, the kids are in the USA, and likely to stay there. She’s given up nothing to be with him. It’s all her way.

if they can’t fix this, achieve the dream, get public respect, and it seems hugely unlikely they can. Then I could see Megan walking.

A much wealthier woman, young enough to start again, mother to royalty in name, with a story to tell, that she can spin that she did it for love, harry is unstable, she thought she could rescue him, they are all toxic, and she wants a fresh start. She likely would have the ability to start again on her terms if she jettisoned him. Write a book, start acting, do lots of support for divorced women, mental health that kind of thing.

so I can see harry clinging on, but I’m genuinely not sure Megan will.

I very much doubt they have been able to contact William directly . But I am sure if they send flowers we will be told which flowers and why !

Puzzledandpissedoff
Noticeable, too, that the keener supporters are now absent when Harry does something unarguably foolish - even on the "Harry withdraws lawsuit", which was genuine news rather than rehashing

Yes - I think H & M are becoming increasingly hard to defend, even by their hardened fans. And once they become totally ridiculous I guess even they will be too embarrassed to stick up for them.

I have to say that IME the nastiness on these threads does come from the Sussex camp - I honestly find their comments are less nuanced and much more 'low blow', if you know what I mean. There'll be a totally irrelevant reference to the rumours about William's affair (a complete fabrication, as we know, by Giles Coren). Also, the endless defence that Meghan was subjected to racist attacks at one time. Yes, some of the tabloid press and their worst readers are guilty of this - no-one is arguing with that. But that doesn't give Meghan a 'get out of jail free' card for her behaviour.

I think with the Sussex fanatics it's a bit like 'My country, right or wrong!'. H & M can simply do no wrong, whatever the evidence to the contrary. Not to mention bringing in the republican perspective, which really has very little to do with it - H & M steadfastly claim to support the monarchy and hold on to their titles for grim death, so they're hardly poster boys and girls for anti-monarchists.

What I find interesting is that their behaviour is becoming very close to all the things they accused and cut Thomas Markle off for. I wonder if there has been a realisation and reconciliation with him as a result?
(just kidding - I know there’s no chance of that level of self awareness)

I think they can, they have his mobile number, and the same for Charles. Doesn’t mean William would answer the call, agree with you there, I doubt any of them have spoken, but they can text directly or go through staff.

I suspect the last thing William needs right now is Harry and Megan sniffing round, but I can believe they are trying to make amends and not escalate further due to the vast hole they are in.

Me too. Very succinctly put.

I read somewhere that a spin off series of Suits is in the pipeline with a character who is very similar to the one Meghan played. There is talk that Meghan might be cast.

I have always thought she’s biding her time till Harry inherits the next tranche of his inheritance at 40. She’s considering her options meantime and perhaps pulling away.

Is Anne not in charge of that money ? Happy to be corrected .

A problem is that the more the Sussexes look like chumps, the more their Supporters turn their attention to the rf, particularly Kate.

Anyone can see that there was a (quite coincidental ) mass silence about Endgame, no comments about withdrawing the lawsuit and a bit of confusion over the Legends award. However all systems go (and a gleeful go at that) about Kate’s operation.

I think the Sussex Stans hoped that a thread titled Endgame (231) that wasn’t piled on would be a great advert for it… I’m not sure that’s worked out for Scobie in this case but he’s not the sharpest tool in the box anyway. Just bitchy. Saying “I said Stepford wife-like” as a riposte to “you called Kate a Stepford wife” was not exactly rapier(like) wit.