Omid Scobie Endgame PART 5

[Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar]

A continuing civilised and enjoyable discussion of all things relating to Endgame. Please keep posts on topic - I do not want to have to invoke Ross Gellar again!

Previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4957618-omid-scobie-endgame-part-4?page=1

Wow, well stated, @BreadInCaptivity !!!

Agreed.

I would think the therapy Harry has received thus far has failed really to scratch much more than the surface. To be able to work deeply, a person has to put enough trust in themselves and their therapist to really let go. I say this from personal experience having had a lot of therapy myself and from losing a parent in my teens.

It took me until the last person I saw to really trust that I could say anything I wanted without fear of chastisement, shame or blame. Partly this was my story having been from a family, where there was a great deal of shaming and blaming and partly this was the previous therapists, who failed to really ‘get’ me or to allow me to be me.

There was also a lot of discussion on MN the time Spare was leaked that Harry may currently be receiving the sort of therapy, which encourages the client to seek reparation from those, they feel have wrong them in order to heal. This can lead to more trauma when a person feels rejected once again.

In essence, the type of therapy, the therapist and the client all need to align.

I think both can be true. Smiley, happy children… or indeed adults can be masking their pain. Again, speaking from personal experience.

Edit - To add, I imagine very few people are truly happy or unhappy all of the time. It really depends on what part of our lives we are focused at any particular time. Trauma can resurface years after an event or be forever present.

I’m also not on board with him being stuck as a 12 year old in pain. I think that’s quite frankly a way of absolving him of personal responsibility. Oh, it’s not his fault, his mum died and then he hit puberty.

I do think he has always been a loose canon, but the royal family tried to cover up his excesses, protect him, give him direction. Megan simply enabled and validated his feelings of resentment and jealousy, and egged him on, as she thought they would be a listers. She was right, they came out and signed mega deals, what she missed is they had to do the work and didn’t have the skills set. And that constant negative attacks doesn’t make for a good brand,

we can all try to diagnose harry, personally I think he likely has something like narcissistic personality disorder, the behaviour is abnormal, and lacks intelligent thought, but either way, I don’t think this is about Diana dying when he was 12, I think it’s fundamentally who he is, selfish, dishonest, entitled etc some people just are.

Harry either looked back at his early childhood through a lens of finding resentment or the resentment was already there. His therapists would have should have gave him the tools to acknowledge what trauma can do to past recollections, even those that pre date the trauma. Harry was meant to be in the new era where his brother and father remained trapped and he is free, he was the Victor and they were the people to pity. Yet he’s still finding resentment and endgame mimics that resentment. He is his own tabloid maker and Omid has caused more headline news in his and Meghans name in 2 weeks than the press he is taken to court has done in months.

He is his own tabloid maker and Omid has caused more headline news in his and Meghans name in 2 weeks than the press he is taken to court has done in months.

When you think of how many inches the tabloids got directly from Harry from the netflix series and Spare in this last year, it was like a bonanza for them. Stories and photos that they never would have gotten in a month of Sundays and all straight from the horses mouth, no need to do any digging or quote unnamed sources and no chance of being sued etc.

I think Harry has failed to realise how lucky he actually is, yes he will never have the top job (that hes said he doesn't want apparently) but he has so many masses of unearned privilege and wealth. You would wonder how mixing with actual normal people in the army didn't make him see how lucky he is. I mean he can't even see the privileges he has in comparison to his cousins hes just always comparing himself to William. I still can't believe he chose titles for his children if this whole thing is so awful

It’s odd. Kate (or Catherine now) is becoming increasingly popular with the British public. Which can’t fail to have been noticed by harry and Megan.

harry in one of the interviews, I can’t recall which, there were so many, maybe the docu series, said Megan is effectively the new Diana. That claim is repeated in endgame. Which is widely thought to have them behind it but mainly Megan.

you can’t position yourself as such. Tell the world that’s what you are and everyone thinks, or right, so then you become it, that’s not how it works, and you can’t imagine William or Kate stating anything so tacky.

but Kate’s visibly and obviously increasing popularity must be increasing their resentment. Megan, once arguably popular, and if not, at least widely supported, is now fallen from grace and widely disdained. As is Harry. At the same time, Kate’s popularity is soaring, as is William’s. And their targeted hits on her, are bouncing off.

it’s a curious contradiction in their fortunes, and Id think not a happy one for the Sussex’s.

harry in one of the interviews, I can’t recall which, there were so many, maybe the docu series, said Megan is effectively the new Diana. That claim is repeated in endgame. Which is widely thought to have them behind it but mainly Megan

I wonder if that's not part of the problem - that by calling M the new Diana he has to keep replicating Diana's experience. Notably the car chase that wasn't and the claims that if they were in the UK the paps (are there any these days?) wouldn't leave their children alone. They seem to have this need to inhabit what they see as Diana's reality - persecuted and hounded by the press, driven out by a RF in which she was the star and ultimately killed because she didn't have security.

They seem to have this need to inhabit what they see as Diana's reality - persecuted and hounded by the press, driven out by a RF in which she was the star and ultimately killed because she didn't have security.

Whilst simultaneously failing to acknowledge that Diana courted the press when it suited her and had no security because she rejected it 🤷‍♀️

They seem to have this need to inhabit what they see as Diana's reality - persecuted and hounded by the press, driven out by a RF in which she was the star and ultimately killed because she didn't have security.

I know that Charles resented Diana's star power and the fact she got all the attention but did other members of the RF?

I’m not sure it was that simple. I strongly suspect Diana was very difficult behind closed doors, and when a marriage breaks down, then often neither person looks fondly on the other. So potentially the fact the public loved someone you find difficult and who you may feel the public don’t really know the truth about , could be difficult.

it was widely reported Charles did feel resentment, sure, but clearly that’s not his behaviour now, and has never been, in regards his kids, so I suspect whatever was going on there, had much more to it, than simply Charles wanted to be more popular.

I think it was he sees Diana as being very popular with the public, the queen of hearts. Doing good deeds with kids, land mines etc, and they both want Megan to be seen that way. Kind of ignoring the fact, you actually have to do the work to get that position. Also to be honest, a lot of the adulation at the funeral, was much about the shock of her early death, and the Charles /camilla thing.

Absolutely, Diana thought she could switch press interest on and off as it suited her, and found she couldn't.

@BreadInCaptivity I think you have a point about the effect of his marriage, but I don't think you can pin it all on that, and I do think that childhood traumas crystallise responses in adulthood that just take you back to that stage of (arrested) emotional development.

Pre Meghan, Harry was already in therapy. He has said he was really struggling and that William recommended he go. William. Harry and Catherine launched Heads Together in 2017. I think being part of the threesome with W&C was giving him purpose and direction, and I get the impression they were handling him and keeping a lid on what was going on underneath. Invictus was a joint enterprise between the three of them originally through the Royal Foundation and effectively gifted to him as a solo project to spearhead.

He said in Spare that he has been diagnosed as having an addiction to hatred to the media and wanting to right the wrongs against his mother, as @Mummyoflittledragon wrote:

There was also a lot of discussion on MN the time Spare was leaked that Harry may currently be receiving the sort of therapy, which encourages the client to seek reparation from those, they feel have wrong them in order to heal. This can lead to more trauma when a person feels rejected once again.

If part of that therapy includes his stated aims of Archewell, as per the extract from their webpage linked above by @Lunde , the frankly frightening attacks on free speech he is advocating with the Aspen Institute and his plethora of court cases against the media, then he engaging wider society in his theraputic process - and not from any position of particular insight or expertise in the field. He's doing it from the standpoint of, imo, an angry (and frankly, stupid) little boy who is absolutely fixated on his mother and what happened to her, and, by extension and with causal blame shifting, everything that has happened to him.

He appears to have done nothing to try to see Diana as anything other than a martyr and the mummy he knew as a 12 year old. Part of therapy about one's parents should include seeing them as human beings, flaws and all, to try to understand them from your point of view as an adult, and to try to see less black and white and more shades of grey (I'm not talking about extreme abusers here - just the generally negligent and incompetent ones). It's part and parcel (to me, anyway) of absolving yourself of any guilt and responsibility for what happened to you in childhood, the way your relationship with your parents panned out and their own current state of being He doesn't seem to have thought at all about Diana's own responsibility. And he seems to want her reborn, to pick up where she left off, in Meghan (and possibly, lord help her, his daughter, whose physically visible Spencer genes he rejoices over).

MM, I think, just let the genie out of the bottle, that the Firm was more or less successful at keeping a lid on. It benefits her in every way for Harry to believe and portray her as Diana 2.0 (whether or not she believes it herself), and it benefits her to have a seat at the table - only bestowed through her husband - in high level, political discussions on free speech and mental health. If he moves away from those discussions, if he stops using wider society as his therapy session, then he has very little left to offer to stay on the big stage - and by extension, neither does she.

I think this is true. We know William had a different relationship as she was using him as a confident. I imagine he is much more aware of her flaws. I could see he would have been jealous of that as well, was she spending more time 1:1 with William perhaps?
I know she had been on holiday with the boys that summer, but she must have been separated from them for long periods of time, especially as they were away at school. We know that going away to school can also cause trauma.
It must sting that your mum died in those circumstances whilst away with a boyfriend. I know she is held up as a brilliant parent but how much time was she actually spending with them especially with the divorce. Am I remembering she had some access issues with them initially?

Thank you for this thread, I’m finding it extremely interesting!

This makes for interesting reading, especially as it has come directly from the Queen and the time it was written - Jan 2020. Blows a rather large hole in Harry’s claim…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/elizabeth-ii-mark-sedwill-meghan-diana-sussex-b2461181.html

This is possibly the best summing up I’ve read yet.

That’s interesting, the question there is what is the definition of effective. Considering two of the queens key advisors were on ravec, it’s clear she didn’t think that included armed met.

Charles was paying for his security in Canada, Harry was already complaining publicly his family had left him security less, when in reality Charles was paying. He later stopped.

none of it was honest from Harry and meghans side, which is just something I find really odd.

I’m surprised the Queen was so naive. Who did she think was going to pay for it?

Harry and Meghan are financially with money that they have control of richer than William and Kate, what they can’t do is establish the assets to afford the income they need that William is custodian to and ultimately to be a Diana they need that wealth to be a renowned philanthropist, Diana name was built on the asset of the Prince of wales title. Harry’s need is for a foundation to not just match but be superior. Which is much easier said than done and the tactics to rubbish the royal family compensates for the difficulties of attaining the legacy for themselves and their children. Invictus is an example, Harry and then Meghans involvement was paid for by the crown. Now it is either costing Harry and Meghan to attend or costing the charity to have them there. Which is detrimental either way.

ER II asked for effective security - she did not demand it was provided in any particular way or at any specific level. Letter makes it clear RAVEC had briefed palace about how it all works, and ER II was happy for it to work in that way, but she still pressed some personal points about both H&M to ensure they were fully taken in to account

I suspect that was the origin of the bespoke arrangement for risk to be assessed ahead of every visit, and publicly-funded protection would be provided at the level deemed necessary to counter the threat at the time

@Cosywintertime yes, none of it seems to make sense when you start to see all the pieces come together. I suppose Harry never expected for us to see the full picture, just the bits he wanted us to.

Their complete disregard for the financial support Charles has given them is awful.

We know William had a different relationship as she was using him as a confident. I imagine he is much more aware of her flaws. I could see he would have been jealous of that as well, was she spending more time 1:1 with William perhaps?

Perhaps if the time with William was as a confidante he (at the time) would rather not have had it?

I think Harry was treated differently to "compensate" & perhaps that was the wrong thing?

Maybe he had the wrong personality for it or maybe it has caused the resentment that it was supposed to prevent?

Harry and Megan are no where near as wealthy as Kate and William, not even close. As William has now the duchy of Cornwall, making him a billionaire.

I know right, it’s the outright lying in matters that are easily disproved. He literally said he was without security blah blah , family abandoned him, they had no security, risk to life, as Charles was literally paying millions and he’d security round the clock,

I just find that really weird and disturbing. But they both do it. They both lie. Outright, big lies, disproven ones, I genuinely have never met anyone who does that.