Omid Scobie Endgame PART 5

[Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar]

A continuing civilised and enjoyable discussion of all things relating to Endgame. Please keep posts on topic - I do not want to have to invoke Ross Gellar again!

Previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4957618-omid-scobie-endgame-part-4?page=1

Yes. This is an interim costs award, which Harry will be required to pay. If he refuses to pay the Mail can (eventually) ask the court to strike his claim against them out. So he will definitely pay!

Costs awards are completely usual in the UK court system. If you bring a claim, or make an application in the course of pursuing your claim, you must pay the other side’s costs if you lose. It’s intended to dissuade people from bringing spurious claims, or making spurious applications just to cause their opponent inconvenience and expense. The idea is that you are “punished” for unreasonable behaviour by having to pay the other side’s costs. It’s less of a deterrence if you have plenty of money of course!

The court will determine the amount to be paid. It is very rarely the actual out of pocket costs incurred by the winning side, just a contribution towards them. And sometimes the costs just get all left to be determined when you get to the end of the case. Equally though, if you make an expensive application that requires a lot of preparation and a hearing (like the summary judgment application here), it’s very likely you’ll get a costs award against you if you lose.

Thanks for kind words, MNers! I find legal machinations very telling of a person’s psyche. If I were a PR person, or a Hollywood person, maybe I’d think similarly of their other pursuits. It’s a lot for two people to manage: court cases, public image, earning a living, a massive wedding, moving house multiple times, having two children, family fallouts in every direction, losing friends in every direction, people seeking to make a living off of you, and that’s without the unstoppable juggernaut of baggage you get with the RF. I would crumble - admit “defeat” or rather, accept my limitations and refocus on essentials and what matters most. I would lean on anybody and everybody offering me well-meaning non-vested advice, starting with family and trusted friends. Mostly, I would move very, very slowly to give myself time to think things through.

I just can’t grasp the thinking behind doing something like oprah or the Netflix programme when you’re in a shitstorm. You would have to be so good at blocking out noise and having focus; or be legally beholden to people making you do these things; or desperately, desperately need the money; or (most likely imo) have deafeningly loud feelings about things. And, if you’re so deafened as to lose all perspective and any doubt or humility, well heaven help you. There’s no help for people who are that far gone.

I think it's why they royal family rarely sue, and settle out of court if they do.

Yeah I think Harry forgot the legal system isn’t just him going “I am angry!” and the judge goes “You win, here’s some cash.” Everyone has a right to a public defence. By bringing these cases he is giving a platform, an audience and a mic to his enemies and then asking them to speak at length on what they know about him.

I was just thinking about that yesterday, his legal bill for his constant law suits must be enormous. It just adds to his lifestyle and living expenses. I reckon he possibly spends more on legal costs a year than he does security.

thing is, most of it is pointless shit. I mean what was the point of suing over the opinion on whether he’d offered to pay for his security or not. He said if made him look bad, but honestly that’s not what makes him look bad, it’s his constant attacks on his family for money.

@cauliflowerwaterfall Yes, he is not covering himself in any kind of glory!

He comes across as very controlling

@Cosywintertime Is it around 2 million for security per year? Round the clock for 2 adults and 2 children would mount up.

If he refuses to pay the Mail can (eventually) ask the court to strike his claim against them out

Yet another thing I didn't know

I was going to say that I doubt any adverse publicity around not paying would bother him - to Harry it would doubtless all be the media's fault - but if it could cost him the case that's different

A pity, perhaps, that he didn't "do a William" and reach a private settlement, but maybe ANL would have refused that anyway, knowing the money they could make from the ongoing story

I reckon he possibly spends more on legal costs a year than he does security.

Plus all the flying to and fro for his court appearances. Don't suppose he flies economy.

He makes decisions with his over-inflated ego and not his head. A nightmare client for a lawyer (and also a total cash cow).

Most of his claims have appear to have little substance. His evidence against News Of The World was more of less a fishing expedition and based on his hunches. The case against ANL very much relies on the (much more substantial) evidence of the the other parties to the claim. The judicial review case is also a hiding to nothing, I really will be surprised if RAVEC's decision making process passes the unreasonable test that he needs to prove.

Thank you for this new thread op.

I think he wants to be in charge, to control the narrative as he feels he has been controlled and his narrative dictated all his life. And it would appear he is correct, the narrative about him was heavily controlled… in a way to show him in a good light.

He was a young teen when his mum died and with traumatic events, we do some form of splitting. He probably entered puberty shortly after her death. Brains developmentally are rewired at this age and all emotion becomes very raw, visceral, toddler like.

I think he is still very much stuck in this moment and the control stems from this time. Until he can make peace with this, I think there will be many confusing and baffling decisions along with more court cases. He maybe symbolically sees the court cases as taking his mum back from the press, who he believes murdered his mum.

@Mummyoflittledragon You are welcome.

Interesting point about H being stuck as that grieving 12 year old. What on earth has all the years of therapy he's been having done to help him? It seems to have entrenched the angry and grieving child in his psyche, not helped him to move forward.

I guess the thing is, therapy can only help you if you engage fully with it and you're prepared to do hard, uncomfortable work on yourself. Harry's never accepted that he might be wrong about anything, so either he's ignoring the good advice he's getting from his therapists, or he's just hiring people who pander to him rather than really challenging him to sort himself out.

For people as loose with the truth as this couple, endless litigation is not going to go well.

Going back to Endgame what do we think the royals will do with regards to the ‘royal racists’ the so called revelations don’t appear has had the desired affect?

It's probably more. Harry and Meghan often seem to be doing different projects in different places - so this would be at least 2 teams. Then if they are off doing their own events - the kids would need another team. There were estimates that Harry and Meghan's decision to leave Archie alone in Canada for one week when they travelled to the UK to announce they were leaving cost the UK taxpayer an additional £50,000 in costs of sending another team out.

Then there are the costs of flying British Police to and from the US and other countries, they would have to work a rota of several weeks on and several weeks off so would need greater numbers if RPOs cannot go home to London or Windsor and need hotels or other accommodation as well. Nor can they get the usual economy of scale through perimiter security where several Royals live on the same estate at Windsor, Kensington Palace etc. Then there are the additional costs in the US of travel, accommodation and vehicles. The Royal Protection service is mostly organised for Royals to be away from home for only a few weeks at a time for overseas tours or holidays etc - perhaps sometimes for a few months for gap years or military service. Providing full time security in a foreign country would cost a lot more - especially in an expensive part of the US.

Traditionally only the heir is provided with full time security - and I think Harry's jealousy at William is probably driving this. The Queen did not provide full time security to Anne, Andrew or Edward - they only got/get security for official engagements. Which is the same deal Harry was offered.

In 2020 - One security estimated that the type of security Harry wanted for his family would cost around £7½ million to provide at 2020 prices. Probably nearer to £10million now.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7902651/Taxpayers-look-set-paying-7-6million-year-security-bill-Harry-Meghan.html

Going back to Endgame what do we think the royals will do with regards to the ‘royal racists’

Publicly, maintain a dignified silence, I should think. They have no need to get into a squabble with Scobie, whose reputation (such as it was) as a serious writer on the monarchy is trashed anyway. .

Probably nothing publicly however Harry had to do a course when he was racist so I should imagine if it were true they would do similar

Yes I agree, you have to be prepared to recognise your own bad behaviours. I think the pandering point is really important, not just in therapy but in all the people around him, including his wife. The problem also is that the people who are not pandering to him are not doing so in the most publicly humiliating ways possible, eg the Spotify boss. His fragile ego has not been scaffolded with any sort of self reflection or a realistic sense of his abilities to deal with that type of criticism.

Probably nothing. Never explain, never complain, hoist and petard.

I don't think they need to do anything, it's had very little impact of any on their reputation bearing in mind where the information has come from.

At this stage It think the Sussexes are trolling the world.

They have just released the 2022/23 Archewell Impact Report - that summarises their activities for the financial year and has a section "Restoring Trust in Information"

... and it states (and I kid you not)
"We promote information integrity and ethical journalism as a fundamental right – an essential need for the wellbeing of communities and democracies the world over.
....
We are committed to finding solutions that ensure information is trustworthy, that there is justice for those systemically undermined and disempowered, safety for those harmed, and equal representation at tables where decisions that impact all of us are made."
https://archewell.com/impact-report-2022-2023/

From the team that brought you Spare and Endgame ..... recollections may vary!😂😂😂

I'm not really on board with that narrative.

Pre-M he seemed in a pretty good place especially with Invictus in having a real purpose and direction of his own (but I concede looks can be deceiving).

Yes, I'm sure he wanted a relationship but I just can't see any evidence that he was as unhappy as he claims he was.

It will undoubtedly upset the Sussex Squad but I do feel (as pleased as I was for them both in the beginning) that their relationship has not brought out the best in each other (so far). That said I don't wish either of them ill will. I'd much rather they found their niche and were successful in it for the sake of their children, themselves and the constant slow crash I seem to be unable to keep watching to my own chagrin.

Personally I see them both as people who had a void to fill and thought each other would be the perfect fit - but actually they both got round pegs for a square hole.

H wanted what his brother had with C and was thrilled to find someone adept at handling the media, wasn't phased by joining the firm and was of course very beautiful/ charming/intelligent.

M found someone who could give her the status and platform she had coveted her whole life who was affable and loving/protective.

The problem was that the life M thought she was signing up to wasn't what she got.

She misunderstood the difference between royalty and celebrity and in doing so didn't realise you can't have a foot in both camps on both sides of the Atlantic.

Didn't need "help" because she understood PR/Branding and how to manage the public. Possibly genuinely thought she could teach the RF a thing or two in this regard.

So reality strikes and yes she is unhappy. It's not like being a celebrity at all. No you can't get designer freebies. No you don't just get to pick a choose your engagements - you do the cold wet meet and great in Fife as well as the film premieres. You don't get to choose your patronages. Most of all you don't get to have flash baby showers in the US with your new A list besties and the vision you had of a life split between the UK and US being toast of the town in both evaporates.

In addition you get shitty press over dumb rules over nail varnish and tights and some thinly veiled racist copy and some overtly racist attacks on SM.

Then you realise your husband didn't prepare you for any of this - as belatedly so does he.

So do you start to blame each other or do you make a decision to blame everyone/anyone else and find a way to make the life you envisioned rather than the one you ended up with?

So that leads us to the Megixt manifesto of half in, half out that was roundly rebutted and the whole "it's not us, it's them" mentality was further cemented because admitting you were unhappy due to your own misconceptions/rash choices/failure to test the waters/take things slowly/take advice etc simply wasn't an option.

They absolutely could have chosen a different path in having independence and maintaining a positive relationship with the RF. However that wasn't compatible with their narrative of "you made us leave".

It's a mindset they still haven't broken away from regardless of any opportunity to reflect on the negative consequences (not least to themselves) of their behaviour imho.

Absolutely nothing is my guess. Grey rock.

At this juncture H&M seem to be doing more damage to their own reputations than anyone in the RF.

To date any statements - even those trying to be conciliatory have been slapped back ref: "service is universal" or words that effect and any olive branches ref: funeral walkabouts followed by Scobie etc

Say anything and it's just another opportunity for H&M to fire a salvo back. So why bother when as stands the flak from their own bombs is being blown in their direction and not yours?