RAVEC - Prince Harry

[pilates]

Can someone explain to me the procedure and how this works?

That’s a very interesting article AutumnCrow

BP have obviously been reading this thread! 😀

Who knows if it is true but I would have thought there was a case for private security in some of the buildings royal that are mainly used for administration.

I also wanted to say that I think today’s high court ruling, which I am delighted about, imho adds to Harry’s case for improved security.

I can’t see how British state security forces could be involved in protecting H&M from hacking.

I know nothing about IT security but surely this would mean giving security forces access to their devices and I can’t imagine they would be happy to do this.

I have no idea if pp covers the possibility of hacking or not, or prevention of it, what I am saying that if your phone is potentially being hacked, then whoever is doing the hacking knows your whereabouts, where you are going to be on a certain day, who you are meeting, and all of that obviously compromises security.

very logical, but common sense is so often blurred by illogical hatred!

Do you therefore think that all those whose phones were hacked should be given security cover? Do you think extra security should be provided even though the types of phones and passwords have changed so that the type of hacking that took place previously is now difficult to do and probably not a current problem?

You are saying that smilesy. Not me!

As per usual a ludicrous stretching or deliberate misinterpretation of my post.

I’m saying that given the proven risks he has faced, and will be facing in future, that his case for improved security is bolstered, not groundless.

Also technology is advancing for both the hacker and the hacked. Change is not all one direction!

I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. He’s not the only one to have faced threats in the past or the future I’m sure. I don’t think this adds anything to his claim for security. Very tenuous

Phone hacking by media isn't a current problem though? The scandal blew up in 2011, and I think it hasn't been done by newspapers since about the mid 2010's as security is much improved and they now know they'll get caught.

Am happy to be corrected though.

None of the claims Harry brought to court date after 2011.

So this court case result will have no impact on his judicial review re RAVEC.

@Sheepskinthrow These allegations of phone hacking which has recently been confirmed, are historic. Old mobile phones were very easy to hack and laws very lax. Nowadays, it's very unlikely to happen without some serious MI5 involvement, thank goodness.

Well we hope that incidences of phone hacking are historical, but technology is improving all the time and while phones are more hack-proof, as I understand it, the tools with which you hack are getting increasingly sophisticated too.

And just because journalists may not hack phones any more, that doesn’t mean they don’t have many methods through which they can obtain information, WhatsApp being one I imagine, as well as the old tricks of of paying off staff and hotel and catering employees.

All of which contributes to fear and paranoia and a horrible sense of not being able trust friends and family. And that obviously feeds in to a wish for greater security.

The same thing happened to Diana who was called paranoid and delusional. The fact that her phone was being hacked made it easier for Martin Bashir to persuade her to be interviewed, which in part led to a whole change of different events. And in the end of course, it turned out she did need better protection.

As I understand it RAVEC and the met police do provide a level
of protection/security but the level varies.

I do not believe the Met police and other security services (National and international) only track potential threats on certain RF members and other high profile people. I believe there is general surveillance that is fed back and decisions are made on the threat level and therefore security required.

As a pp said mobiles and other digital devices can be tracked and I have not seen any suggestion that the security services are not monitoring this.

The cost of this level
of surveillance would be fairly consistent whether or not it includes H & his family. Remember some politicians e.g. Home Secretaries get ongoing protection.

The issue for H is that he no longer enjoys the close personal protection he has had for most of his life as 3rd in line to the throne. This costs significantly more than the general surveillance and is why when in the UK, RAVAC and the Met Police ( with notice), will provide what they consider to be an appropriate level of protection.

@Sheepskinthrow I think nowadays it's easy to get stories on famous people simply by paying people in their close circle. Leaking (also called whistleblowing in some circumstances) is very common. Apple phones are so hackproof even the police can't get into them without a court order to apple. To hack into modern communications is very difficult according to DH who is in that industry, but relatively easy to trick people (aka scamming). The law is also much tighter nowadays so hopefully this type of hacking is in the past.

All of which contributes to fear and paranoia and a horrible sense of not being able trust friends and family. And that obviously feeds in to a wish for greater security.

RAVEC don't operate on the basis of 'wishes'. They operate on the basis of risk assessments way more expert and sophisticated than what folks on the internet come up with. Their record in protecting VIPs is excellent.

To repeat, if Harry is deemed to require security, it will be provided. You've yet to tell me what is wrong with that arrangement. Unless of course you think you know better than the experts?

IcedPurple you’ve missed the point. Obviously Harry should be provided with expensive, unnecessary security because he feels like it. Objective fact be damned, it’s all about the feels.

@Sisterpita
Harry is not 3rd in the line of succession, but 5th, behind George, Charlotte and Louis. Prior to the late Queen's death, he was 6th in the LoS.

I said for most of his life he was 3rd in line which is correct. Harry had security as 3rd in line from birth to age 28.

Icedpurple and JemimaTiggiwinkles

I gave up talking about RAVEC pages and pages ago. I don’t claim to be an expert on anything!

I don’t think the feelz as you call them should be dismissed so lightly. The phone hacking may be in the past but it was indicative of the lengths shady journalists will go to get a story, pressured by their bosses, and we have seen recently the level of vitriol and malevolence aimed at H&M which frankly looks like a sustained calculated campaign of hate against them.

My point is that the murky bosses who were in charge during the hacking scandal are still
in charge now, orchestrating this stuff!

Rebekah Brooks for example who was prominent at the time of the phone hacking scandal is currently CEO of News UK. I know she wasn’t found guilty but she faced huge condemnation after the original phone hacking trial. Guess who she thanked and named outside the court as her two main supporters? Piers Morgan and Jeremy Clarkson funnily enough; so the campaign of hatred continues and is still very current.

Of course Harry has legitimate concerns bringing his wife and children in to an environment where these people are stirring up hatred. The man needs the highest level of protection against unstable people who read and listen to all of this vitriol and believe it.

...and he gets the highest level of protection deemed necessary for his needs.

Phone hacking, as the newspapers did it, was getting in to someone's voicemails made possible because the person had not changed the security code from the default one it arrived with.

It gave them messages, which might or might not include include locations timings

This is a very well known technique. And of course experts such as those who contribute to RAVEC know about it and have routinely factored it in for a couple of decades at least. I don't see how this ruling changes anything. As they will factor in many other things that could happen.

Of course Harry has legitimate concerns bringing his wife and children in to an environment where these people are stirring up hatred. The man needs the highest level of protection against unstable people who read and listen to all of this vitriol and believe it

I’d argue this very differently @Sheepskinthrow and specifically that the greatest risks are those that they are continuously bringing upon themselves and others in the family through this never ending bile they spew through their “projects” and mouthpieces. The biggest protection they need is from themselves, I don’t think it’s for our security experts to keep picking up their pieces quite frankly.

Of course Harry has legitimate concerns bringing his wife and children in to an environment where these people are stirring up hatred. The man needs the highest level of protection against unstable people who read and listen to all of this vitriol and believe it.

Right.

So you do think you know better than the highly trained experts with an excellent reputation for keeping royals and VIP's safe.

Glad we finally established that.

It is strange, isn't it?

No-one is arguing that Harry and his family should not be provided with the level of security they need if/when they visit the UK (providedthey give reasonable notice).

Only that those who access to the relevant intelligence, plus the training to assess and manage this type of risk, should make the decisions.

I am glad the tabloids are being held to account, but it doesn't have any relevance to the JR of the process by which those decisions are made (let's remember, Harry's attempt to have the decision itself reviewed was unsuccessful).

I've just watched this on BBC iplayer - BBC iPlayer - The Crime I Cant Forget - Series 1: 6. The Plot to Kill the Queen

The behind the scenes work of the Irish police and security forces when QE2 made her state visit to Ireland in 2011, quite nailbiting for all involved!

Thanks, @wildernesssw , that looks interesting! I think when we see the royals at certain events we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.