Omid Scobie's New Book - PART 2

[Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar]

I'm not sure what is the correct etiquette for carrying on a thread, but here we are. Thanks to @BoxedandRibboned for the original thread.

Original thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4935714-omid-scobies-new-book?page=40&reply=131041571

You've inspired me.

The Montecito Okey Kokey

You put your backtrack in
Your backtrack out
In out, in out
What you on about?

You say that there's a racist
Then you turn around
When will the truth come out?

Oh, that Omid Scobie
Ohhh, that Omid Scobie
Ohhh, that Omid Scobie
Knees bent, bile out,
Blah, blah, blah

I keep seeing people writing there’s two royal racists now. Did that come from this book too?

If that's the worst he says, I'm not sure anyone could truly deny any of that. It's quite subjective, but deniable?

Are we allowed to talk about what's on Dutch Royal correspondents' Twitter on here? There are much more interesting extracts there than this!

Regarding the name being included/excluded, if the story is reported accurately, i.e. Person A made a remark and afterwards was keen to explain it wasn't meant in a certain negative context and rectified the issues, then there isn't really a problem that I can see here. This would in fact tie in with H&M's timeline, they mentioned this on Oprah and then backtracked, perhaps that explanation happened in between.

Not a H&M fan and not a royalist, btw - but I'm here for the drama, Mick, it's all the drama 😂🍿

You could tell us who the Dutch royal correspondent is so we can find them on Twitter, that would be safe enough.

Which bits do you know are undeniable @SparklingLime , ie fact?

Is it a fact that Catherine ignored Meghan's cries for help? Do you know if she even knew about it? Why do you think it was her duty to do something about it if she did? As opposed to Meghan and her husband taking the matter in hand?

Is it a fact that Catherine shudders at the mention of Meghan's name? An undeniable fact?

Why do you believe that Catherine never wanted to be friends with Meghan, when in the Oprah interview, Harry specifically and smilingly said that she gave Meghan a warm welcome into the family, and in Spare he said she was excited to meet Meghan, being a suits fan?

In what way is Catherine a "Stepford wife" They are robotic domestic and sexual slaves. How does Catherine fit into that mould?

Why is Catherine being able to accept instructions and fit in a bad thing? Why is her behaviour less desirable than Princess Diana's?

Why do you think Catherine - mother of 3 under 11 - might have a lower workload than other senior royals? Why is her spending time with her young family and being a hands on mum a bad thing, when Harry has complained of generational cycles of coldness? Why is it ok for Meghan to say that motherhood is the most important aspect of her life, but not Catherine? When does Catherine get to retire from royal duties - when her husband dies (in what, 50 years or more) or when she feels like it?

The two racists were clearly Charles (as has been alleged) and Camilla if she was in the room at the time and said nothing - complicit through her silence (not being an “ally” as much a buzzword as “unconscious bias”).

I have two mixed race children. I’m the lighter skinned parent. If my parents had questioned the colour of their grandkids’ skin, I suspect my in laws would have found it offensive (in a “why do you ask? are you concerned it might come out looking like us?” way).

If my PILs had questioned the colour of their grandkids’ skin, nobody would have felt offended. That’s the way it goes, for reasons which are second mature to anyone who isn’t white - colourism. (I would have been upset as I would have though they appreciated my skin colour over their own, which would have disappointed me and saddened me that they would have to feel that way.)

In reality, if anybody questioned anything, nobody said anything to me or my DH. DH and I talked about it, and we didn’t need to pussyfoot as we know where we stand.

Now, with this revelation, the reality is that a bunch of people are going to fall over themselves saying it’s completely normal, other people are going to say it’s not, and yet more people are going to fall between the two. Either way, it’s an unholy mess that was a private, family affair. Harry had the conversation, then told his wife about it. I don’t know if I would have told my husband if my parents had ever said anything (they didn’t and would never have). If I had told DH, I would have contextualised it, if necessary made it clear to him where I stand (not with my parents) and we would both have left it at that.

What he would never have done is lob it into the public arena where he knew that every Tom, Dick and Harry would know about it and use it for their own ends against my parents’ personal and professional lives. THAT, to me, would have been an unforgivable insult to my parents, far worse than a private conversation of idle musing between parent and child borne of natural curiosity.

Theres a difference between wondering what skin colour a baby will have, and caring what what skin colour it would have. If Charles had cared, he wouldn’t have walked Meghan down the aisle, surely?

OP, I said, "I'm not sure anyone could truly deny any of that. It's quite subjective, but deniable?"

See the "I'm not sure..."? And the later question mark?

Can't be arsed reading your full post. Avid supporters of either side are so utterly dull. Makes an actual discussion impossible. I'm sure there is fault on both sides.

I wonder if H knew exactly how much M had disclosed to Scobie??

Why would you slate a mother for putting her children before her job? Crack on Catherine you are doing an all round grand job and a great asset to our country.

It’s funny how some of the comments from OS are very similar to some of the unpleasantness Catherine has received from posters on here. 🤨

OK. You said you are not sure someone could truly deny it. I just did, or at least questioned it, based on the objective information that's available. But if you don't want to read it, that's up to you. No need for insults. I don't have any problem with you, just Scobie and his unnecessary bile. There's plenty he could say about the RF set up without resorting to petty bile.

I’m wondering if her entire point is to blow up any chance of a relationship between Harry and his father. She wrote him, he replied and she’s shared the private correspondence. Would you ever write her anything of substance again after that?

The ITV news are just showing what a tit Harry is with his conflicting statements in the OW interview and then his denial of ever saying he alleged the RF were racist at all in the Tom Bradby interview. it was all the fault of the naughty.media of course. Honestly the way it was presented was very amusing and he looked a complete tool !

Just had this message from MN and am posting for clarification regarding naming the Royal, because a PP who posted earlier saying MN have said it's not libel has misunderstood.

At Mumsnet, we have a strict process that we follow in accordance with the defamation act (if an official complaint is made).

When the complaint is made, we would then follow the legal process and the posts would either be removed at the users request, or the user would choose to stand by their post. Ultimately, users are responsible for what they post on Mumsnet - like many other places on the Internet.

So when we said it's not libel, we meant that we wouldn't remove posts that were potentially libellous because we don't make that decision. They may well be libellous but as per procedure, that's not our call. Our process is in line with the current legal guidelines around libel.

I have no idea who said what but I imagine that Harry repeating to Meghan x asked me how ‘black’ our baby would be? Is his right to repeat, it’s Meghan’s right to be offended. It’s Meghan’s right to address this in letters etc and it’s ok for Harry to say he was shocked etc that ok. It’s ok to call out offence.

A work colleague has just had a baby she is white American background her husband is from Indian and has Indian heritage. She was openly musing about what their baby she was carrying would look like and what colour darker skin he / she might have …. I think that’s fine and her choice but I wouldn’t dream of doing it. However, Harry said in an interview once about his baby ‘When we started dating I wondered what our baby might look like and if the ginger hair might die out with me as her genes are stronger’ or words to that effect - he said that. It might be that Meghan wasn’t offended by that but I think it’s fine to call it out and discuss it but what I don’t agree with is people jumping on especially the media as it could destroy someone totally to be called a racist or say they need educating in public.

I think it’s the same as when Lamar’s had a song that had the N word on it and at a concert in 2018 he rounded on a woman singing along using the n word (that he used) and he rounded on her and told her she couldn’t use it and she had no right. He was reclaiming it - he said but other people who weren’t in that ethnic group couldn’t say it. It really a discussion point about what is unconscious bias, what is racism what is discrimination as society changes and we need to learn and talk together without arguing - just listen.

but I don’t like the fact they pointed fingers and therefore everyone was accused and there was no discussion just a scoring of points.

let’s not forget Harry dressed up as a Nazi - having had family who survived the holocaust and many that died - I find that deeply offensive

I was thinking that. They all seem to sing from the same hymn sheet, don't they?

Interestingly, having now compared the two versions, in the Dutch version (as translated into English) states that Harry and Meghan didn’t name the individual on Oprah, because, as Meghan said, it would be too damaging for them. The Dutch text then says that the private correspondence between Charles and Meghan revealed the identity: Charles.

The English version however, while following the same broad pattern, says that the identities of “two individuals” were revealed in the private correspondence between Charles and Meghan. And then goes on to say that English law means Scobie is unable to name them.

So the Dutch version says there’s only one person who made the comments, and names him.

The English version however says it’s two individuals, and doesn’t name either of them.

That’s clearly not a translation error - no professional translator would get confused about the singular and the plural. Clearly, this (one of the central allegations in the book!) has been changed at some point in the writing or publication process.

I imagine they have agreed to stay away.

In his new book Scobie refers to a subsequent exchange of letters between Meghan and her father-in-law that both parties are said to have wanted to keep confidential that address the duchess's 'concerns about unconscious racial bias in the royal family'.

Wait, wait....how did Scobie get a copy of private letters? Did Meghan give them to him?

I hadn't heard about this at all!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/prince-harry-hair-archie-lilibet-diana-b2261009.html

And also in defence of Catherine it came out later that around that time her brother James had severe depression and she had been supporting him and going to some of his therapy sessions so she had a lot going on that she may not have been at liberty to tell H & M about.
https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/a29456894/james-middleton-brother-kate-therapy-mental-health/
And of course that was as well as a difficult pregnancy and then a new baby.

What I would like to know, is do Sussex fans like the book because it trashes various royals, or dislike the book because it has clearly made H&M look bad?

If the OS has seen the content of those letters then it can only have come from Meghan.

Yet another misjudgement from the Sussex camp. They really overestimated how important they are.

And I love how people are going on and on about Meghan’s values, her work ethic, her leadership. What has she actually done lately except show up to photo ops and set up interviews for herself?

I do think a lot of the criticism that is sling at the royal family by hardcore Sussex supporter is deflection.

I imagine it is Schrödinger's Endgame. Both awful and wonderful at the same time.