Abolishing the Monarchy

[tigger2022]

A few people on different sides of the debate have expressed an interest in discussing/debating this, so I thought we could give it a go…

Abolishing the monarchy?

My personal view: I used to be a staunch republican but have since completely changed my view. I think the constitutional monarchy is a slightly odd system, but seems to do the job, and I can’t think of another country’s system which is actually preferable. I also find myself less & less convinced by republican arguments…

Thoughts?

Starmer knows the average Labour voter supports the monarch. You know, the "Love me Queen (King), love me country, simple as" types. It's the middle class champaign socialists that want an end to the monarch.

What would you replace it with that would cost less?

The garden (of Buck House) wouldn't need to be maintained. Obviously it would be covered with awfully tasteful blocks of new flats to complement the main building. Angela Rayner would live in one.

With cost, I don't think it's a massive issue. When you look at the American Presidential Inaugurations, they happen every 4 years. Very showy, very monarchical. Coronations only happen when the reigning monarch pops their clogs. And look how many people came out to celebrate, people loved it. Honestly, no other country does pomp and circumstance quite like the UK.

I'd just like to point out quietly that the C of E is not a religion. It's a denomination of a religion.

If all of the baubles are snatched from them when the revolution comes, and distributed among the people, as someone upthread suggested, what do you think my chances would be of getting a few valuable goodies, being one out of 60 something million, and not living 'up London'? Slimmish??

The garden (of Buck House) wouldn't need to be maintained. Obviously it would be covered with awfully tasteful blocks of new flats to complement the main building. Angela Rayner would live in one.

Yes. I guess the flats would be brutalist architecture to rub the King’s nose in it. As for Windsor Castle……well it’s burned down once, so maybe again.

I imagine if Prince Andrew wasn't a spare, he'd be a bit less noncey. In the same way that if Harry wasn't a spare, he'd be a bit less whiny.

Always possible but the real point is an hereditary monarchy means we get the next Buggins in line whether that be a dedicated servant to the people (on recent form unlikely) or a morally bankrupt buffoon with zero chance of getting rid unlike an elected HoS who can be booted every few years and who in the meantime is always at risk of a vote of no confidence and a premature booting.

@upinaballoon
Re the COE
"If all of the baubles are snatched from them when the revolution comes'

Oh you mean the baubles they themselves snatched ? Those baubles?

The COE is the least of it - the main issue there is they are a minority interest with an illegitimately elevated position due to the fact that the monarchy needed to ape Catholicism. Monarchs needed smoke and mirrors to suggest legitimacy
Same thing works now on certain people but they call it 'pomp' and it lets them believe that this little island isn't fast failing and irrelevant .

Re cost, yes the coronation ( see COE above) was a shameful waste of money but is is the daily monthly yearly drain on the taxpayer that is the main cost. Security and maintaince for extended family few can even name and maintenance for 18 palaces, travel ,unpaid tax etc etc

For those of you getting your knickers in a twist about revolution - didn't Philip say they'd go quietly?
Lol
What a crass post about working class people loving the Windsors ! Stereotype much?
The truth is it's nearing fifty fifty in terms of support . 51 % isn't good enough when you cost hundreds of millions

Someone mentioned that the need the royals as a backdrop to their own life . I know psrasocisl relationships are a thing / the royals have exploited that on the modern age
I'm sure they'll stilll be around . You can read about them in Hello . I mean Charles and Camilla appeared on Americas got talent on the day of the coronation ! They aren't shy if a deal is needed

Novella I guess given your strength of feeling that you belong to a Republican group. What steps are you and the other Republican activists taking to remove the monarchy?

I would ask that people are allowed to make a democratic choice .
Is that too scary a prospect for some ?
At the minimum a question added to each ballot paper asking if the voter is happy to continue to support the Windsors in the manner to which they have become accustomed .

Populism is a delusion and democracy is an illusion. When speaking party politically, ie Labour/Conservative, they are two cheeks of the same arse. So when applied to whether or not the monarch should stay or go.... I think the Windsors, as noncey and full of shit as some of them are, will be staying put. They make up the national identity of the country.

I don’t think there’d be much point in a referendum tbh - the monarchy would win quite easily, and referendums don’t settle issues anyway. It just makes that issue the focal point to the exclusion of everything else.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/14/official-jewellery-gifts-to-royals-worth-80m-are-not-in-national-collection no fretting, carry on as usual.

To make a democratic choice, you have to present us with an alternative. So what is the alternative you're proposing?

Novella 4,

My only observation about the Church of England was that it is a denomination, not a religion. Does the word 'disestablishmentarianism' refer, for instance, to the un-linking of the C of E from the monarch? I never hear it mentioned nowadays but I think it was when I was younger. Perhaps I misunderstood.

The rest of my post followed on from the thought of allowing members of an abolished Royal Family to keep valuables which were gifts to them, e.g. a brooch made and bought in London for Prince Philip to give to the Queen in the twentieth century, and the rest of the valuables being 'for the nation'. I was thinking that in the brave new republic my chances of getting a share of those'for the nation' baubles wouldn't be too high.

I suppose Novella's alternative, in a referendum, is to support a RF financially, or not. If people voted 'not' would they have to put their national insurance numbers on the ballot paper so that HMRC could NOT take a certain amount of tax from them? Is that how it would work?

I'd like to vote that I don't want my tax spent on HS2.

I'd like to vote that I don't want my tax spent on HS2.

Id like to vote that I don’t want my tax spent on Tony Blair’s security detail - or Stonewall for that matter.

Speaking of taxes, government debt is currently at about £2.6tn, that debt comes with an annual interest payment of £100bn a year. The taxpayer is just paying for the interest. And of course now Mr Sunak has sent yet more millions to Ukraine. Whether you're a fan of the monarch or not, the government is by far the biggest stink going.

And of course now Mr Sunak has sent yet more millions to Ukraine... the government is by far the biggest stink going

Yes, shitty Ukraine getting itself bombed to oblivion by a country that has been slicing away at it for years with no real retaliation by the international community. I mean why didnt it just give in to Russian rule and save our energy prices from rising. What a oody selfish country fighting for its life! 🙄

I'm proud both Johnson and Sunak supported Ukraine. I hope that if we ever get invaded, other countries will support us.

Novella are you lobbying government for a referendum to keep/abolish the Royal Family? If so, how’s it going?

I think @Novella is far more realistic than that.

Joining Republic is a start. I'm a member, I renewed after Graham Smith and his staff were wrongfully arrested during the Coronation. As did thousands of others

Support for the removal of the monarch will swell when the RF continue to engage in things the public don't want or aren't interested in, though I can't see the monarch fully disappearing in my lifetime. The King is a caretaker monarch at 70+ and his reign will be short compared to his later mother's reign. I look forward to Queen Catherine.

Roussette · Today 17:27
I think @Novella is far more realistic than that.

So how do you plan to get rid of them?

Maybe the members of Republic could create a political party and stand for election. It could also reveal the depth of feeling in the country about the issue.

They could call themselves the Wolfie Party.

Power to the People! ✊

(Am I very old?! )