Page 16 | Abolishing the Monarchy

tigger2022 · 2023-06-19T13:42:28+00:00

A few people on different sides of the debate have expressed an interest in discussing/debating this, so I thought we could give it a go… Abolishing the monarchy? My personal view: I used to be a staunch republican but have since completely changed my view. I think the constitutional monarchy is a slightly odd system, but seems to do the job, and I can’t think of another country’s system which is actually preferable. I also find myself less & less convinced by republican arguments… Thoughts?

Original poster

tigger2022 · 29/06/2023 07:04

@Roussette they wear short shorts and kilts all year round, put some bloody trousers on!

OP posts:

Iwantcakeeveryday · 29/06/2023 10:02

Roussette · 29/06/2023 06:35

At first glance... I am gobsmacked at the wage bill... £27.1million

And let's keep a note of those helicopter journeys.. 179, and the charter flight costs for C&C for just one journey £186,571 and one charter flight from Aberdeen to Northolt £25,587

I am of course picking out the worst bits but we are on a thread called 'Abolishing the Monarchy' 🤣

It's obscene, truly. Thanks for sharing.

CathyorClaire · 29/06/2023 10:07

So many questions.

Who made up the £21m SG excess?

While £1m seems on the suspiciously low side for that many helicopter flights who's making them?

Why are they only chucking a couple of mil into the pot for their own circuses?

And why do they need 517 staff? What are they all doing?

CathyorClaire · 29/06/2023 10:08

Excess?

Shortfall

CathyorClaire · 29/06/2023 10:23

Oh and thanks for highlighting those key points, Roussette.😃

There are some indefensible figures in there especially Charles' flight between residences although that appears to be nothing new 😡

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/5-huge-royal-bills-you-27364329

Roussette · 29/06/2023 11:02

CathyorClaire · 29/06/2023 10:23

Oh and thanks for highlighting those key points, Roussette.😃

There are some indefensible figures in there especially Charles' flight between residences although that appears to be nothing new 😡

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/5-huge-royal-bills-you-27364329

£15,000 on a flight for Charles pre kingship to save 2 hours driving time, 😮

The next few days will be interesting as the report is dissected in more detail, it will rumble on and on I imagine

TaylorSwiftFan · 29/06/2023 18:21

Roussette · 29/06/2023 06:29

Some more key figures

– £86.3 million – The total taxpayer-funded Sovereign Grant, made up of £51.8 million for the “core” funding and an extra £34.5 million for the reservicing of Buckingham Palace.
– £107.5 million – Official net expenditure by the monarchy, a rise of £5.1 million or 5% from £102.4 million in 2021/2022.
– £1.6 million – Amount spent from the Sovereign Grant on the late Queen’s funeral.
– £700,000 – Amount spent from the Sovereign Grant on the Platinum Jubilee (including £300,000 from 2022-23)
– 517 – Full-time equivalent staff paid for from the Sovereign Grant, including fixed term contracts, up from 491.
– £27.1 million – The wage bill for staff, up £3.4 million, or 14%, from £23.7 million the year before.
– £2.4 million – Cost of housekeeping and hospitality for the royal household, up £1.1 million from £1.3 million.
– £3.9 million – Cost of official royal travel, a drop of £0.6 million or about 13%, from £4.5 million the previous year.
– £1.02 million – Cost of 179 helicopter journeys made by members of the royal family.
– £186,571 – Cost of charter flights for the King and Queen to Rwanda for the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting.
– £146,219 – Charter flights for the King and Queen’s first official state visit, to Germany in March 2023.
– £25,687 – Cost of a residence-to-residence charter flight for the King, when he flew from Aberdeen to Northolt in October 2022.
– 9.7% – Proportion of staff from ethnic minority backgrounds working for Buckingham Palace, compared with 9.7% in 2021-22 and 8.5% in 2020-21. The target was 10% and is now 14%.
– 16.3% – Proportion of staff from ethnic minority backgrounds working for Kensington Palace. (13.6% last year)
– More than 2,700 – Official engagements by members of the royal family in the UK and overseas, compared with 2,300 last year.
– £5.9 million – Prince of Wales’s private income from the Duchy of Cornwall landed estate – for about six months he spent as a new heir to the throne in 2022-23.
– £6.9 million – Amount of money kept by the landed estate for day-to-day running, instead of going to William as salary.
– £12.8 million – Salary the King received as the Prince of Wales from the Duchy.
– £24 million – The total annual Duchy of Cornwall profit for 2022-23, which would ordinarily have been William’s full salary.

The cost of helicopters is ridiculous.

Why on earth so many staff!?

Gothambutnotahamster · 29/06/2023 18:25

I honestly don't mind. I'd much rather have a hereditary monarch as head of state than another politician!

CathyorClaire · 29/06/2023 21:10

£15,000 on a flight for Charles pre kingship to save 2 hours driving time

Obscene, isn't it?

Silence on the duchy accounts .

Wonder if Willy is selling himself trees or trying to claim polo ponies as a business expense yet. He hasn't had time to buy a pile and pay himself rent on it I suppose but that doesn't mean it's off the cards.

Roussette · 30/06/2023 07:06

It's sometimes good to see something on a chart and this article shows that. 2021/22 compared to 2022/23

https://www.nationalworld.com/news/uk/royal-familys-money-monarchys-income-spending-explained-charts-4201569

Roussette · 30/06/2023 07:12

One royal statement that stuck out for me...

A palace spokesman said “His majesty has obviously supported the strategic direction of the royal households in its attempts to achieve net zero.”
He added: “In the short term though, it is all about reducing our emissions where we can control our emissions and in adjusting room temperatures, whether that’s during the working week or whether that’s a limiting of the effect of heating on weekends. Or whether it’s turning off the gas lamps where it’s safe to do so, as a precursor to changing them over to electric operation, or indeed if it’s the case of turning the heating off on the swimming pool – these are all areas which are about the steps that we can take to reduce our emissions.”

I do wonder if these 'palace spokesmen' actually read back the statements they put out.

"Jeeves! Lower those gas lamps! And the swimming pool is like warm soup, turn it down a bit, and bring me a martini whilst you're at it!!"

Don't they have any idea about how crass it sounds to talk of swimming pool temperatures in a CoL crisis?!! They really don't have a clue about the real world do they... I suppose they think them turning down the temperature of the swimming pool is the same as people cold in their little houses because they can't afford to turn the heating on.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 30/06/2023 07:48

Thanks for the updates @Roussette they are so out of touch aren't they? Reducing emissions by not having a heated swimming pool all to yourself. JFC

twinklystar23 · 10/07/2023 19:40

My greatest concern is that when BJ tried to prorogue parliament the Queen as HOS should have been able to intervene. In my view this has shown up the weakness of a constitutional monarchy. Whilst as an unelected HOS it makes sense, that she wouldn't intervene to prevent this as needing to remain politically neutral.

It has never occurred before as all previous P.M have never behaved in such an undemocratic way and have honoured what appears as an unwritten constitutional arrangement to prevent other MPs being able to vote. BJ quite rightly pointed out that proroguing parliament was not unlawful. Therefore in my view to not have this legally written rule potentially creates the setting for a slide into at worst, a dictatorship.

So to the HOS, I personally would feel highly uncomfortable according such power to an unelected monarch. Therefore I think there would, if we were to keep the RF that there were additional checks and balances in such a situation. Perhaps a citizens assembly of a number of the population as a jury is selected could be one possible answer.

Far greater transparency of tax payer funds to the RF.

The positives are that the reach of soft power and the inherited knowledge of how royals and the constitution work is valuable to the country.
Also raising awareness/championing organisations, british brands and giving a voice/ platform to vulnerable/ marginalised groups.

The negatives are that it reinforces a class system of privilege and wealth amongst other reasons.

SheWhoReportsToHim · 11/07/2023 00:39

Roussette · 30/06/2023 07:12

One royal statement that stuck out for me...

A palace spokesman said “His majesty has obviously supported the strategic direction of the royal households in its attempts to achieve net zero.”
He added: “In the short term though, it is all about reducing our emissions where we can control our emissions and in adjusting room temperatures, whether that’s during the working week or whether that’s a limiting of the effect of heating on weekends. Or whether it’s turning off the gas lamps where it’s safe to do so, as a precursor to changing them over to electric operation, or indeed if it’s the case of turning the heating off on the swimming pool – these are all areas which are about the steps that we can take to reduce our emissions.”

I do wonder if these 'palace spokesmen' actually read back the statements they put out.

"Jeeves! Lower those gas lamps! And the swimming pool is like warm soup, turn it down a bit, and bring me a martini whilst you're at it!!"

Don't they have any idea about how crass it sounds to talk of swimming pool temperatures in a CoL crisis?!! They really don't have a clue about the real world do they... I suppose they think them turning down the temperature of the swimming pool is the same as people cold in their little houses because they can't afford to turn the heating on.

No, indeed, they have not the faintest idea of how, yes!, crass any of it is!

I reckon I would have wound up a republican either way - but what most certainly didn't help was being the exact same age as Prince William!

Born and raised rural working class/ woeking poor here. First in the family to ever get any A-levels. To ever graduate from - strike that! Even get INTO - university.

Supposed high-flying corporate executive in a supposedly "no-one would have thunk - she was just a girl from just a farming village" position now! I speak at my old school's graduation ceremony with shocking regularity - because they have nothing much better to offer than "village girl who made partner".

There isn't a day in my life that the thought "yes, I've worked hard, yes, I am reasonably talented - but SO MUCH OF THIS has, literally, just been sheer, dumb luck and being in the right place at the right time" doesn't cross my mind. Doesn't make me feel undeserving because, in addition to the raw talent and daily 12+ hours it had cost me there was also just some ... pure chance!

If this is you, and you happen to share William's birthday, you can't help but wonder: "does he feel as undeserving, as 'sometimes out of his depth' as I do?", "does he lie awake at night frightened that tomorrow they will all find out he's nothing but an imposter who doesn't belong, and it'll all be over? If so: what happens then?"

The plural of "anecdote" isn't "data" and my personal insecurities are just that. Still, it irks me and upsets my sense of fairness that, objectively speaking, the answer is "statistically speaking, he's probably less talented than you - but, more importantly (even if he were): that doesn't even matter! You might fret about that 20% 'sheer dumb luck' - somewhere, some 4 decades ago, a woman gave birth to a baby at the exact same time as your mum did to you - THAT baby's 'sheer dumb luck' counter maxed out the moment he survived birth!"

It's the diametrical opposite of what we like to call a "meritocracy". I don't like Blair, and I despise Johnson. Both were born a lot more privileged than me. I'd still have either of them as a head of state (that I can cast a vote to oust) over "lucky boy, born on the same day as myself - might deserve it, might not: the issue I have is: it DOESN'T EVEN MATTER!"

Wiseflower · 11/07/2023 13:47

TaylorSwiftFan · 29/06/2023 18:21

The cost of helicopters is ridiculous.

Why on earth so many staff!?

Show quote history

I agree, along with useless Celebrities, the expenses are astronomincal on this pretentious culture that dominates UK and America.
However, the royal family do make billions too.

Independent news: How much tourism money does the royal family bring into the UK?
According to Forbes, the House of Windsor is estimated to be worth £19bn.
It helps earn hundreds of millions for Britain’s economy every year, with Windsor Castle and Frogmore House recording roughly 426,000 paying visitors between April 2021 and March 2022. An adult ticket costs £26.50 from Sunday to Friday.

Many British families cannot afford the cost of tickets to visit like Hampton Court Palace, Saville gardens, Windsor castle and many more. It use to be affordable but now it is a big business. A day out for a family can cost over £100 just to visit.

CathyorClaire · 11/07/2023 20:31

According to Forbes, the House of Windsor is estimated to be worth £19bn.

This much bandied about figure is based on a report by a branding company with form for favourable royal puff pieces.

There are and never have been any indications as to who commissioned said report and why but interestingly one of the speakers at that particular report launch was the director of partnerships at the Prince's Trust.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 15/07/2023 07:48

Theres an article regarding the allowance Phillip got, Camilla won't receive the same, and theres a few details about expenditure there too.

'But the late Duke of Edinburgh continued to receive the £359,000 annuity every year despite the change in the way the royal family's activities were funded by taxpayers.
The new legislation included a provision for Philip, who died aged 99 in 2021, to continue receiving the annuity for his lifetime.
Now, new laws would need to be created in order for Camilla to receive the funding.'

https://news.sky.com/story/queen-will-not-receive-360-000-allowance-from-parliament-given-to-prince-philip-12920764

Queen will not receive £360,000 allowance from parliament given to Prince Philip

Independent public spending watchdog, the National Audit Office, examined the funding structures of the Royal Family in a report, published on Friday, which suggested the King could "alter future funding needs in substantial ways".

https://news.sky.com/story/queen-will-not-receive-360-000-allowance-from-parliament-given-to-prince-philip-12920764

Roussette · 15/07/2023 07:53

It's obscene. When you live in the ultimate lap of luxury funded by the population, to even have had PP receiving this is just disgusting. No wonder they kept that quiet. There would've been an outcry. I usually look at the yearly Royal Report, never saw that in there!
I'm sick of the opaqueness of the Institution.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 15/07/2023 07:56

Roussette · 15/07/2023 07:53

It's obscene. When you live in the ultimate lap of luxury funded by the population, to even have had PP receiving this is just disgusting. No wonder they kept that quiet. There would've been an outcry. I usually look at the yearly Royal Report, never saw that in there!
I'm sick of the opaqueness of the Institution.

I agree, I cannot believe he kept receiving it after he stopped 'working'. Why did he need a separate salary when they had so much. Life of service my arse, its a life of ripping off the public!

Roussette · 15/07/2023 08:10

Iwantcakeeveryday · 15/07/2023 07:56

I agree, I cannot believe he kept receiving it after he stopped 'working'. Why did he need a separate salary when they had so much. Life of service my arse, its a life of ripping off the public!

Show quote history

Yes, see my post on 'Aboloshing the Monarchy'.

I am just highly amused at how this has come out now. Talk about a fait accompli. No one can do anything, too late with PP. Except Camilla not having it! I should bloody well think not! When you live in opulence what do you need that money for? What did PP need it for? It's just sponging off the taxpayer to increase the billions the RF have already.
He'd hardly get his credit card out in a restaurant would he? Or pay for a holiday lol

So when the report says this The monarch could "alter future funding needs in substantial ways" as a result, the NAO concluded
Does that mean they are suggesting Charles could/should do this, or he is hoping to?
I doubt the latter. They are greedy and won't give up a penny unless they have to.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 15/07/2023 08:27

So when the report says this The monarch could "alter future funding needs in substantial ways" as a result, the NAO concluded
Does that mean they are suggesting Charles could/should do this, or he is hoping to?

I take it to mean he can do what he wants, get more, or less, he has that power to change the law.

quantumbutterfly · 15/07/2023 10:10

It is disappointing how apathetic we all are about this, republic.org are already doing the heavy lifting here.

Roussette · 15/07/2023 10:49

quantumbutterfly · 15/07/2023 10:10

It is disappointing how apathetic we all are about this, republic.org are already doing the heavy lifting here.

I agree. But I'm not.

I joined Republic.org when they were locked up for no reason for the whole day of the Coronation after agreeing with a Liaison Officer of the Met at numerous meetings that they could stand out the way and protest.
I have donated before, but this time I joined.

derxa · 15/07/2023 10:54

Roussette · 15/07/2023 07:53

It's obscene. When you live in the ultimate lap of luxury funded by the population, to even have had PP receiving this is just disgusting. No wonder they kept that quiet. There would've been an outcry. I usually look at the yearly Royal Report, never saw that in there!
I'm sick of the opaqueness of the Institution.

What do you think he was spending the money on?

Roussette · 15/07/2023 10:58

derxa · 15/07/2023 10:54

What do you think he was spending the money on?

Show quote history

Nothing. Just squirrelling it away to add to the rest of the wealth.

The Queen never carried money. Nor him. What do they need that money when the very best is provided.
If you had a link that he gave it to charity, that would be wonderful. Doubtful though.