Even as a child Harry was racist

[MamoruHisaishi]

How many times can Harry be excused as having unconscious bias? He was already making fun of people’s accents even as a child.

According to a new book that's coming out from Robert Jobson:

When he was a little boy, around eight years old, his mother took him and William for a ride on a London bus as a treat, arranged by her police protection officer Inspector Ken Wharfe.

On the bus, Diana had to tell Harry to stop mimicking the Sikh bus conductor’s pronounced Punjabi accent every time a passenger pressed the bell to get off. The conductor, a jovial chap wearing a bright yellow turban, was relaxed about Harry’s casual racism, but Diana was so mortified that she eventually told Ken Wharfe to abandon the trip.

Diana, Ken, William and Harry all got off at Green Park and Diana immediately smacked Harry and told him: ‘Don’t you ever do that again.’

Afterwards, she made Harry write to Inspector Wharfe to apologise for his behaviour and for spoiling the day he’d arranged for the boys.
I have spoken to Wharfe, who confirms the incident, and I have also seen the letter, still in his possession, in which Harry jokes about the phrase he used.

As he was a child at the time, he can probably be forgiven — but the incident demonstrates that on one issue at least, Diana was in complete agreement with Charles. She would not tolerate any form of racism from their two sons.

I don't hold H as an honorary black - maybe that is your understanding from the numerous M@H threads. The majority of people against M&H are because of the woman he is married to and whatever you want to call Meghan she is not White. but they use the excuse it is because of their behaviour. If H was married to a classic whatever that that is they would not be any of this relentless picking at any minute non problem which they would not even be interested in if M was white. The intention of the OP is not to debate but to stir more hate. The point you are missing is that most of those posters posted because Harry's name is in the title. If for example we inserted BJ / Nigel Farage or Katie Hopkins - they wouldn't even open the thread. Your description of Meghan is that she is middle class .... and therefor I assume has no connection with black identity- The very people you are aligning yourself with would describe Meghan as working class, with a drug selling mother and only her father was a good parent and she owes any success to her her father - (would they say that if he were black and Doria was white... ? we will never now) Meghan was well known before RF admittedly I didn't know her but I will admit that doesn't mean much. If she was not married to H their English Prince do you think they would be interested in what she was or wasn't and by extension they wouldn't give a flying F* about levels of racism from 8 year old Harry to 80 year old Philip! Maybe you should open your eyes because this OP had nothing to do with the OP challenging the levels or micro aggressions of racism it is simply bullying because of who Harry is married to!

As he was a child at the time, he can probably be forgiven

Yes, I think so.

After a bit of silly pushing and shoving in the school corridor due to children accidentally bumping into each other, our 8 year old Black DS was called a fat n* by a South Asian boy in his class. Our DS is definitely not fat, although the Asian boy could be described as chubby.

I’m Black African/Caribbean mixed with Indian and Scottish slave masters plus a whole lot of other ethnicities that came up in my DNA results.

Yes, all Black people either come from Jamaica or Nigeria LOL.

Educated and Middle Class Black people do exist. We are both.

I blame the parents, not the 7/8 year old boy. Apparently, the boy’s parents were horrified and did not have a clue where their child would have heard that word.

It’s sad that our DS had to experience being called a racial slur to his face at the age of 8, and in London. Our older two DC have never had that experience. DH and I have never experienced that either and we’re in our late 40’s, although we’ve obviously experienced a lot of micro aggressions and covert racism. I became aware of racism being a life long battle for POC when I was in my teens. The racism becomes easier to instantly recognise as you get older due to experience, but it’s such a shame that our 8 year old DS did not have the opportunity to hang on to being carefree and innocent for a just bit longer. A few more years would have been ideal. At least for a few more years until he is likely to be stopped by the Police.

That is awful but black people can be racist as well you know. Last week, my DS was referred to as "the white boy" on a bus by a black mother (in front of me) when her kids asked her why she wouldn't sit behind them ("the white boy is sitting there"). He's not "white" (or asian or black or anything because we are so mixed we don't belong in any category - we even have some Afghan DNA according to the testing results). She was keen to close down the discussion soon after that but it was a big no-no . I didn't call her up on it but I could easily have.
No one community has the race card monopoly here which is why I despair when POC shut down other POC's points of view during disagreements online.

I despair.

Don’t despair it’s wilful

I agree that it must be, as people can’t be that [insert apt word of choice].

Good grief.

This is simply [insert apt word of choice].

Hmmm, sure this really happened, and you said nothing.

This bus story is really not the same as the racism that black people experience. It’s worth reading up on it for a more concise definition as to why than I can give but try not to tell this story again as any example of anything.

and yes, black people can be racist too, as women can be misogynists but the above story is not a suitable example.

Keep your advice to yourself thanks. It comes from a selectively biased perspective. I'll decide whether I found it racist or not. Not you.

@Sudeko
You’ve totally missed the point of this thread, but you continue to do you.

Your ridiculous bus story (if true) illustrates your ignorance.

It’s generally not offensive or racist to refer to people as White or Black.

The Black woman on the bus could have just said ‘that/the boy is sitting there’ but she didn’t.

So, you took offence at your DS being called ‘White’. Does your DS have tanned/brown skin?
Would you have been offended if the Black woman have said ‘the mixed boy’ instead?

Plus, the Black woman you speak of is an adult, not a child! Keep up! We’re discussing Prince Harry being racist as a child.
Do you have any other anecdotes about children being racist or not, that would be relevant to this thread?

Oh, and telling pp to keep their advice to themselves on a public and anonymous website is foolish and makes you look silly.

It was racist to openly label someone according to their race when their race was not relevant. Even worse for an adult to do it in relation to a child. Perhaps it was butt ignorance, that's fair enough.

OK, I'll wade in, though it's a difficult arena.

I'm white, DD is black (adopted). She has been on the receiving end of racism from SOME black teens at school who have called her a coconut and said she is not 'really' black or African because she has a white (adoptive) mother.

This was based on not having a connection with aspects (especially food) of West African culture. DD is South African, and has strong connections with her extended birth family, including favourite foods. Southern Africa is a few thousand miles away from West Africa, with very different traditional foods.

Those calling her a 'coconut' have lived in the UK all their lives, DD lived in Africa until she was 10, including her first five years with her birth family.

So her disconnection with West African traditions had nothing to do with having a white adoptive mother and not being 'properly African', and everything to do with their assumptions about what was 'truly African' that didn't incorporate huge swathes of the African continent.

Like I said @NaturalBae - it’s wilful. There are some people who think that simply referring to a person’s race is racism.

For others - racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior. Calling me a black woman if trying to describe where I was sitting in say example a bus would not be racist - calling me a black woman with a sneer or refusing to sit next to me because of it would be. Being anti racist does not make people colour blind. Identifying and acknowledging difference is an important key to our survival as a species - the issue comes when differences are associated with negativity.

As someone who has had my fair share of being called a coconut or an Oreo when I lived in the US for the way I speak and my interests - I think is an important issue for POC to get to grips with how reductive it is to themselves when they refer to others in their own communities this way. I think it’s best for the Black or Asian groups but in short - it comes from an assumption in places where POC are not the majority that there is a homogeneity to their experiences and interests and many draw community from this. However, when confronted by people who have different interests - it shifts their sense of self and community. Food in Southern Africa can be different to food in West Africa - and Xhosa, Zulu or Ndebele (mine ) cultures are distinct to others in Africa. It’s hard for a teen and I have so many quips that I wished I could have said as teen but I’m now 25 (eek) or so years too late. All the best to you and your daughter.

As Africa has more than 50 something countries, I am VERY surprised to hear "West Africans" as you call them describe themselves as just "African." In my experience, they would just identify themselves as being from a particular country (Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal, Mali etc) or an ethnic group within that country (Twi, Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, Wolof etc )because the ethnic group would be related to their home language, eg I speak Yoruba, I speak Igbo, I speak Twi etc etc, in which case it would not be considered odd to have someone from a South African background.

This may be your experience, but the idea that there is such a strong identity around "West African", (especially), your emphasis, when it comes to food, as you say, is genuinely surprising to me given the epic but friendly rivalry over jollof rice for instance, between Ghanaians and Nigerians. There is no "West African" jollof rice. There is Ghanaian and Nigerian jollof rice, and one is better than the other depending on whether you are Ghanaian or Nigerian, complicated by the fact that neither wants to admit that, in origin, it's a dish from Senegal (jollof is a linguistic bastardisation of Wolof)

But everyone agrees that whichever jollof rice is best, it's definitely not the one in the Jamie Oliver recipe🙂

This was a group of girls at school using their shared identity around e.g. food to bully my daughter and dismiss her heritage and culture as not 'African'.

There may be rivalry over the best jollof rice between Ghanaians and Nigerians, but jollof rice is part of their food culture, and not part of South African (Xhosa to be specific) food culture. So this group of girls decided DD is a 'coconut' and not 'African' because she prefers mealie meal to jollof rice, to use your example.

Are you really surprised that people have multiple overlapping identities? DD, for example, identifies as Xhosa, South African, and Southern African (and African) depending on the context. And British! But not Black British, she fills in those equal ops monitoring forms as Black African.

Good points.

It's a tricky place to navigate, especially as DD has inevitably missed out on knowing her birth culture to the extent she would have if she hadn't been adopted. We are in touch with some members of her birth family, and friends I made while working in SA who are also Xhosa, so as far as possible we have made the effort to remain connected and part of a wider set of family and cultural relationships. But it isn't the same as living it every day.

One of her teachers - from Zimbabwe - took a shine to her when DD was trying to explain to her closest friends (girl 1 - Italian and Polish parents, born and brought up in London / girl 2 - white British and white Irish parents, born and brought up in London) the delights of eating chickens feet. The teacher overheard, and they then bonded over where to buy chickens feet, recipes, mealie meal, samp and beans and chakalaka!

I am not surprised by overlapping identities at all, I have several. I am just surprised to hear of schoolgirls in Britain using a term about the food they eat (West African) that is most commonly used in African Union political meetings, where the continent is divided into 5 regions, not for the purposes of identity, but for geographical balance and jostling over political appointments.

I am from a country in Southern Africa, have lived in two countries in West Africa and one in East Africa, and have travelled widely across the continent but I am unfamiliar with food being described as 'West African" or Southern African for that matter because it varies so much from country to country and within countries, region to region. Must be a Brit thing.

PS, we really don't eat "mealie meal" in South Africa, or in neighbouring countries, going up to the east: it is not a dish, but an ingredient in a dish commonly known as pap, sadza, nshima, ugali, posho etc depending on where you happen to be eating it.

If you can make it, you are a very skilled cook, as it's a bloody finicky dish :)

Because it’s made up

DD cooks mealie meal several ways, luckily she has her older sister and various aunties to teach her - remotely now we're in the UK.

I have no idea what words the girls would use to describe their food culture - DD explained it to me as them calling her a 'coconut' and not 'African' because she didn't like the same foods as them, which DD ascribed to them being from West Africa and DD from Southern Africa and hence having different staple foods and food traditions.

They also didn't like her doing ballet (she also does hip hop and modern, but apparently they are acceptable to the self-appointed police of being 'properly African' or 'properly black').

Happily the school addressed the bullying.

Glad to hear the bullying was addressed by the school. Good luck to your DD. Tell her from me: Hlala kude nomlilo 🤗

Thanks for the pleasant exchange.

Not samp and beans 🤣 - that’s hardcore.

Now have a hankering for sadza but unable to make it properly (don’t have the knack).

Glad the bullying is addressed - I did ballet, rode horses, went rock climbing and listened to rock (still do) as a teen - all things which attracted comments but as long as she has the space to see that anyone can do anything (sounds a bit soppy I know) especially by showing her South African ballet dancers and others who are living full and rich lives running the full spectrum of interests.