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The royal family
Original poster

Even as a child Harry was racist

228 replies

MamoruHisaishi · 07/04/2023 21:16

How many times can Harry be excused as having unconscious bias? He was already making fun of people’s accents even as a child.

According to a new book that's coming out from Robert Jobson:

When he was a little boy, around eight years old, his mother took him and William for a ride on a London bus as a treat, arranged by her police protection officer Inspector Ken Wharfe.

On the bus, Diana had to tell Harry to stop mimicking the Sikh bus conductor’s pronounced Punjabi accent every time a passenger pressed the bell to get off. The conductor, a jovial chap wearing a bright yellow turban, was relaxed about Harry’s casual racism, but Diana was so mortified that she eventually told Ken Wharfe to abandon the trip.

Diana, Ken, William and Harry all got off at Green Park and Diana immediately smacked Harry and told him: ‘Don’t you ever do that again.’

Afterwards, she made Harry write to Inspector Wharfe to apologise for his behaviour and for spoiling the day he’d arranged for the boys.
I have spoken to Wharfe, who confirms the incident, and I have also seen the letter, still in his possession, in which Harry jokes about the phrase he used.

As he was a child at the time, he can probably be forgiven — but the incident demonstrates that on one issue at least, Diana was in complete agreement with Charles. She would not tolerate any form of racism from their two sons.

OP posts:
rattymol · 09/04/2023 10:42

derxa · 09/04/2023 10:26

Harry at eight was not being racist but he was clearly being quite nasty. Diana quite rightly pulled him up on it

Harry was being racist. He was rightly told that was not okay. He may not have known he was being racist.
As a young child I repeated a racist word I heard from a friend. I was told off rightly. I did not know I was being racist but it was still a racist word.
Children repeat what they hear. Harry and William had one openly racist parent.

derxa · 09/04/2023 10:55

Harry and William had one openly racist parent. Who was that?

Samcro · 09/04/2023 11:06

Roussette · 09/04/2023 08:47

@MrsMaxDeWinter

Well said. This thread is ridiculous. And knocking a child.

its awful . all these perfect parents who have perfect children that have never done anything wrong. he was a child.
the trouble with mn threads like these is that people can never change and grow.

Roussette · 09/04/2023 11:09

derxa · 09/04/2023 10:26

Harry at eight was not being racist but he was clearly being quite nasty. Diana quite rightly pulled him up on it

I think that's mean. I don't think 8 year olds should be called 'quite nasty' like that.

George won't be perfect either you know, bet you wouldn't call him that.

derxa · 09/04/2023 11:14

Roussette · 09/04/2023 11:09

I think that's mean. I don't think 8 year olds should be called 'quite nasty' like that.

George won't be perfect either you know, bet you wouldn't call him that.

Show quote history

Oh come off it. Children can often be nasty through ignorance. And I didn't say he was nasty but his actions were. I'm sure George is similar.

Roussette · 09/04/2023 11:18
Looney Tunes Vintage GIF

Fair enough derxa. I think this thread wins the award for the most ridiculous one started during Easter 2023!

MrsMaxDeWinter · 09/04/2023 11:26

jeffgoldblum · 09/04/2023 10:22

You are not a person of colour. You are blackfishing, which a lot of Harry and Meghan's white female critics do on social media. It's clear from the way you use language around race and the way you approach racial issues: you are offended by racism only when you can say Harry is the racist. You are using the name of a Japanese pianist, which, to those who don't know his work, makes you sound colourful and exotic -- I was amused to see a poster on another thread say your username was beautiful, did it mean anything in your language, and of course you didn't answer

You may both disagree, but this is a dreadful accusation to make to another poster!
And I suspect goes into personal attack and troll hunting territory!

Look, this person has insisted that she is offended by Harry's actions at the age of 8 because she is a person of colour.

She then equated two adults using the N word, foully, and publicly, to a child of 8 mimicking an accent and being told off for it.

There is no universe in which the two things are the same. There is no person of colour who understands racism who would compare using the N word by two adults to a child mimicking an accent. This is false equivalence.

It is legitimate to point out that the poster is probably not a person of colour, that being the reason she gave to explain her outrage in the first place.

Whaeanui · 09/04/2023 11:41

Sometimes, it’s very hard for people who are persons of colour, to read certain things which we are familiar and uniquely aware of, and not be suspicious of who it’s coming from. Not accusing any person here of anything. But, I’ll also admit some people of colour, like women with internalised misogyny, can have internalised racism and that can come out in how they word things. If then we are also discussing it with someone who has disregarded, minimised or ignored other clear and obvious racist instances, while having a laser focus on one man and seeking to prove he is racist, it just becomes hard to take it at face value. Anyone here aware of the situation with the setting up of the Black mumsnetters board knows that people of colour are confronted with racism a lot here and have to tiptoe around the issues while others get to goad and be offensive. So while we shouldn’t troll hunt, I think this is slightly different and is borne out of frustration and intense goading with possibly inconsistent or selective outrage and moralising.

Cokefans · 09/04/2023 11:52

Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man

Samcro · 09/04/2023 12:03

Cokefans · 09/04/2023 11:52

Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man

wtf does that mean?

Cokefans · 09/04/2023 12:04

Ask st ignatius and Aristotle

Limetart · 09/04/2023 12:10

My dil once caught her finger and got a blood blister.
She exclaimed that she'd got a black mans pinch.
Dh, ds and I had never heard the phrase and horrified I asked where she got such a racist phrase from.
It turned out her dm used it and dil had grown up unaware of the appalling racism of such a remark.
Obviously us pointing it out made her think of what she was saying and she was pretty mortified.
I wouldn't use it as evidence of her being racist though because she's not.
Her dm is however.

Cokefans · 09/04/2023 12:11

@Limetart pretty obvious that is racist - was she an adult at the time!?!

NaturalBae · 09/04/2023 13:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NaturalBae · 09/04/2023 13:43

*How is asking why a Poster who created a thread attacking an eight year old child for being racist, which Commonwealth country that they came from ‘against MN talk guidelines’, when they are the one that has referred to being from a Commonwealth country as some type of qualification!??

To be clear - asking a person which country they came from is against MN talk guidelines, even though the OP presented coming from a Commonwealth country as a POC a qualification for speaking about racism?

Is this the outcome of the Lady Hussey questions and the embarrassing drama that it caused for the Royal Family?
If so, as a society we have not learnt a damn thing. SMDH.

MrsMaxDeWinter · 09/04/2023 13:59

Great post @NaturalBae

It is a pity it was deleted but this is one of the Mumsnet blindspots. They are not great at weeding out racist posts, but the minute a person alleges a "personal attack", even when it is not, @MNHQ is very quick on the uptake.

Mumsnet has, and has always had a race problem.

As a consequence, we have important discussions about race, history and identity being derailed by bad faith actors pretending to be what they are not, even when it is obvious that no person of colour would ever equate a child mimicking an accent to an adult calling black people the N word.

Do you think it's worthwhile for us to move these discussions about race and the royals to the Black Mumsnetters board? One poster suggested it to me before, but I worry that even if we do, @MNHQ will simply bring it all back to the Royal board, meaning it's back to square one.

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 09/04/2023 13:59

So much 🙄

NaturalBae · 09/04/2023 14:01

It’s also interesting how both my and @MrsMaxDeWinter posts were deleted by MN for breaching MN talk guidelines as Black women talking about racism that affects us!

There have been way too many blatant and unbelievingly racist posts that are ‘allowed’ to stand on this MN site.

I often try to stay off some of the threads on MN re. racism and have previously vowed to leave MN forever, especially due to the shocking racism on MN since the discussions around the death of George Floyd, BLM and now Meghan and Harry.

Thank you to @MrsMaxDeWinter @Roussette and many other pp like them who continue to challenge and educate against the disgusting and foul disease of racism that continues to separate and other us all.

MrsMaxDeWinter · 09/04/2023 14:18

I did not expect my post to last as long as it did to be honest, so I am grateful that some saw it, and could see this bullshit for what it is.

Roussette · 09/04/2023 14:20

No. Thank YOU @NaturalBae All I can say is... I try and learn. It's important to me because of the mix of cultures in my close family, so a steep learning curve at times, and I relish it. Unexpected but just plain lovely.

No one is born racist or anti-racist, that is why this thread title demonising an eight year old is unpleasant. I know people will immediately jump in and talk about his time in the Army, what he said... well, he is learning too, isn't he? It's ongoing self awareness and self reflection as we move through life. At least he is trying to learn. There are posters on here who aren't doing that, and no doubt members of the RF..... look at PPhilip, Princess M of Kent telling waitresses to go back to the colonies, and all PP's 'gaffes'. He didn't want to learn, did he?

Beanfield2023 · 09/04/2023 14:20

How can he be a racist if he married a Black woman?

Whaeanui · 09/04/2023 14:23

Well I missed your posts @NaturalBae and yes @MrsMaxDeWinter it’s a problem here for sure. The thread itself, about a child, is a problem and yet your posts are removed.

NaturalBae · 09/04/2023 14:23

MrsMaxDeWinter · 09/04/2023 13:59

Great post @NaturalBae

It is a pity it was deleted but this is one of the Mumsnet blindspots. They are not great at weeding out racist posts, but the minute a person alleges a "personal attack", even when it is not, @MNHQ is very quick on the uptake.

Mumsnet has, and has always had a race problem.

As a consequence, we have important discussions about race, history and identity being derailed by bad faith actors pretending to be what they are not, even when it is obvious that no person of colour would ever equate a child mimicking an accent to an adult calling black people the N word.

Do you think it's worthwhile for us to move these discussions about race and the royals to the Black Mumsnetters board? One poster suggested it to me before, but I worry that even if we do, @MNHQ will simply bring it all back to the Royal board, meaning it's back to square one.

Thank you.

But, lo and behold surprise, surprise my post has been deleted again!
It’s a good thing that I save some of my posts, so they can be easily re-posted.

Maybe we should just talk amongst us on the Black Mumsnetters Board, but then the racist trolls just stalk us with their ignorant and hateful bile on there!

Will non racist, non POC pp just have to go to the Black Mumsnetters Board in order to educate themselves on racism and our numerous and continuing negative lived experiences in order to educate themselves and understand extensively exactly what it means and entails to be anti racist and/or an ally?
Or should we just mind our own Black business by removing ourselves completely from these types of forums that are ‘meant to be inclusive for all’ and continue to have our own discourse away from everyone else who does not look like us and who do not also have the same lived experiences as us?

I struggle with titles such as ‘Why I’m No Longer Taking to White People about Race’ for this reason. Ultimately, I don’t think that society will change if we separate ourselves and do not discuss issues such as racism honestly and openly with everyone included.

NaturalBae · 09/04/2023 14:29

Whaeanui · 09/04/2023 14:23

Well I missed your posts @NaturalBae and yes @MrsMaxDeWinter it’s a problem here for sure. The thread itself, about a child, is a problem and yet your posts are removed.

I’ll re-post my 13:30 post again, but no doubt a racist person will delete it or request for it to be deleted 🙄…

MrsMaxDeWinter · 09/04/2023 14:30

Beanfield2023 · 09/04/2023 14:20

How can he be a racist if he married a Black woman?

For Harry to be a racist, it is important to delegitimise Meghan as a woman of colour. If you just try to talk about Meghan and race on the Royal threads, you get a flood of "but she looks white, I see no colour, I don't care if she is white black or polka-dotted" etc.

This is also when you get a lot of people claiming to be POC and not believing she was a POC when they first saw her, and claiming to have Jamaican and Nigerian grandkids (sometimes both) who look darker than her. It's always Jamaican and Nigerian by the way. All while being highly offended that Harry is "a racist".