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The royal family
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Whaeanui · 24/03/2023 11:15

The truth is presumably somewhere in the middle

Is it? Britain enslaved black people and colonised brown and black people all over the world. What truth is in the middle? Are we all partly to blame for Britain’s ugly history because we didn’t stand up for ourselves or some helped them do it? Just deal with your own s**t and don’t employ a ‘but the Africans helped us’ to excuse it

PreparationPreparationPrep · 24/03/2023 11:16

Do you?
In what way have I tried to justify what the British did?

Was she?
But she seemed to accept that it was true that African leaders sold their enemies from other tribes into slavery.
I don't know - I said my history isn't good. I assumed she knew what she was talking about.

This isn't feigning ignorance?

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 11:18

Whaeanui · 24/03/2023 11:12

@LaMarschallin my post didn’t @ you as it was about her response to the former poster trying to minimise or excuse

No, I know you didn't specifically @ me.
I was just replying to your post.

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 11:20

PreparationPreparationPrep · 24/03/2023 11:16

Do you?
In what way have I tried to justify what the British did?

Was she?
But she seemed to accept that it was true that African leaders sold their enemies from other tribes into slavery.
I don't know - I said my history isn't good. I assumed she knew what she was talking about.

This isn't feigning ignorance?

I'm embarrassed to say that it isn't feigning ignorance - it's genuine lack of knowledge.
Is it true, then?

blitheringblackberries · 24/03/2023 11:23

@Whaeanui

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120502172215/www.afbis.com/analysis/slave.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20120502172215/www.afbis.com/analysis/slave.htm

Slave trade as root to African Crisis

https://web.archive.org/web/20120502172215/http://www.afbis.com/analysis/slave.htm

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 11:24

To explain: I lived in various countries during my teens, because of my father's job.
I'm very weak on history and geography. I'm improving on geography with the use of a child's atlas but history is taking longer.

Whaeanui · 24/03/2023 11:24

Not sure about the link, summarise?

LucyWildeGru · 24/03/2023 11:25

Not a single person I know supports the monarchy. This is all propaganda.

PreparationPreparationPrep · 24/03/2023 11:40

I'm embarrassed to say that it isn't feigning ignorance - it's genuine lack of knowledge.
Is it true, then?

You could educate yourself- there is plenty of information out there, wherever you find yourself in the world as an adult.
You don't even need to go to a library. The same internet browser you use for Mumsnet.
Even easier someone below has found a link for you.

But if you genuinely don't know - then a MN posting a Link I assume as evidence to support their views in blaming Africans for slavery and excusing the British as the greats saviours is probably not where you would start.

LadyKenya · 24/03/2023 11:43

But if you genuinely don't know - then a MN posting a Link I assume as evidence to support their views in blaming Africans for slavery and excusing the British as the greats saviours is probably not where you would start.

This! I agree.

skullbabe · 24/03/2023 11:47

Whaeanui · 24/03/2023 10:35

Did anyone else read the link I posted several media were running same story? An ISPOS poll proves the title of this thread wrong.

I saw that - the IPSOS poll was in January and the YouGov one in March. Both polls are pretty much similar in their assessments if you look at the data objectively. The Royal Family remain popular and H&M’s popularity is variable in the US.

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 11:48

You could educate yourself- there is plenty of information out there, wherever you find yourself in the world as an adult.

As I've said, I'm trying.There's a lot of history, and I'll never be an expert.

But if you genuinely don't know - then a MN posting a Link I assume as evidence to support their views in blaming Africans for slavery and excusing the British as the greats saviours is probably not where you would start

I wasn't talking about a link. I was just asking about one sentence in a post by LadyKenya.

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 11:51

As for your last sentence, they were their enemies that they were dealing with, from other tribes.

The above sentence.
I didn't know that and, if it's true, I don't think it justifies selling people into slavery.

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 11:52

"Theres a lot of..."

PreparationPreparationPrep · 24/03/2023 11:55

Do you have any other views about slavery.? Or is it just that point that you have an opinion on.
Or apart from that point are you still learning so don't know enough to debate?

skullbabe · 24/03/2023 11:58

BadgerB · 24/03/2023 10:04

MrsMaxDeWinter · Yesterday 11:10
Well given that for centuries Britain ran a slave trade that emptied swathes of Africa,

You do know that Britain was the first country to abolish the slave trade, and that many British sailors died on the West Africa patrol, intercepting slaving ships going to the U.S?
And as for emptying swathes of Africa - slaves were sold to the traders by African leaders.

I guess it's alright then - the lives lost in the sugar plantations, the sheer cruelty and inhumanity shown to those people by the British for which the Crown gained wealth in taxes and duties is ok because the British realised at some point it was wrong and stopped it. They should be praised because they were the first to do it. And other people started it anyway so the British shouldn't really examine their role in things. Interesting take.

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 12:06

PreparationPreparationPrep · 24/03/2023 11:55

Do you have any other views about slavery.? Or is it just that point that you have an opinion on.
Or apart from that point are you still learning so don't know enough to debate?

If that's to me:

Yes.
No.
I know how to debate but was just asking about one thing that was presented as fact here to educate myself.

I'm not supporting the British role in slavery; I didn't know that tribal leaders were a part of it.
That's all. Please read my posts back - I just asked about that one thing.

PreparationPreparationPrep · 24/03/2023 12:11

@LaMarschallin apologies then. I noted Lady Kenya had answered your question but you continued so I assumed you were being disingenuous

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 12:18

PreparationPreparationPrep

apologies then.

Thank you Smile

I noted Lady Kenya had answered your question but you continued so I assumed you were being disingenuous

No, I wasn't. I just didn't think it was an answer to the question I asked, but I'm sure it was meant to be so I'll accept it as such.

TrashyPanda · 24/03/2023 12:35

milti · 23/03/2023 12:53

Mean while, from the Telegraph

Wow

that is very clear cut

BadgerB · 24/03/2023 12:35

MrsMaxDeWinter · Yesterday 11:10

Ahh yes that old crock, the gallant British, riding to the rescue to abolish the slave trade, out of the goodness of their hearts. Perhaps look into the reasons they did so. As for your last sentence, they were their enemies that they were dealing with, from other tribes.

No "old crock". And they weren't all from "enemy tribes". Some had just annoyed the Top Man.

Perhaps you would like to educate us on the reasons the British Navy patrolled to end the Trade, if it was not a growing conviction that the trade was WRONG ?

From BBC Bitesize. Is that OK for you?
Key points From the 1770s in Britain, a movement developed to bring the slave trade to an end. This is known as the abolitionist movement.

The work of politicians, ordinary workers, women and the testimonies of formerly enslaved people all contributed to the British abolitionist movement.

In 1807, the British Parliament passed the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act. This ended the buying and selling of enslaved people within the British Empire, but it did not protect those already enslaved. Many enslavers continued to trade illegally.

Hundreds of thousands of people remained enslaved. It took a further 30 years of campaigning before slavery was abolished in most British colonies.

skullbabe · 24/03/2023 12:37

Whaeanui · 24/03/2023 11:24

Not sure about the link, summarise?

It's a nuanced article - some interesting quotes from this are:

"In 1492, the Spaniard Christopher Columbus discovered for Europe a 'New World'. The find proved disastrous not only for the 'discovered' people but also for Africans. It marked the beginning of a triangular trade between Africa, Europe and the New World. European slave ships, mainly British and French, took people from Africa to the New World. They were initially taken to the West Indies to supplement local Indians decimated by the Spanish Conquistadors. The slave trade grew from a trickle to a flood, particularly from the seventeenth century onwards.Portugal's monopoly in the obnoxious trade was broken in the sixteenth century when England followed by France and other European nations entered the trade. The English led in the business of transporting young Africans from their homeland to work in mines and till lands in the Americas."

"The vast majority of slaves taken out of Africa were sold by African rulers, traders and a military aristocracy who all grew wealthy from the business. Most slaves were acquired through wars or by kidnapping. The Portuguese Duatre Pacheco Pereire wrote in the early sixteenth century after a visit to Benin that the kingdom "is usually at war with its neighbours and takes many captives, whom we buy at twelve or fifteen brass bracelets each, or for copper bracelets, which they prize more." Olaudah Equiano, an ex-slave, described in his memoirs published in 1789 how African rulers carried out raids to capture slaves. "When a trader wants slaves, he applies to a chief for them, and tempts him with his wares. It is not extraordinary, if on this occasion he yields to the temptation with as little firmness, and accepts the price of his fellow creature's liberty with as little reluctance, as the enlightened merchant. Accordingly, he falls upon his neighbours, and a desperate battle ensues...if he prevails, and takes prisoners, he gratifies his avarice by selling them." "

"If there were no buyers there would be no sellers."

"To highlight the role of the African elites in the slave trade is not to argue the obvious that they were morally depraved like the Europeans who bought slaves from them. It is to show that the corrupt leadership that undermines democracy and economic development in African countries today has a long history."

skullbabe · 24/03/2023 12:40

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 11:51

As for your last sentence, they were their enemies that they were dealing with, from other tribes.

The above sentence.
I didn't know that and, if it's true, I don't think it justifies selling people into slavery.

It doesn't. The buyers were also wrong and the increasing demands drove the trade.

LaMarschallin · 24/03/2023 12:44

skullbabe · 24/03/2023 12:40

It doesn't. The buyers were also wrong and the increasing demands drove the trade.

I agree.

Spectacledbear67 · 24/03/2023 12:54

It’s ok everyone! Funnily enough Wills just happens to be on a low key trip to Eastern Europe atm - where he was accidentally photographed eating a €7 sandwich in an LGBT café with palace staff! What could be more of a contrast to parading around in an open Land Rover wearing white military attire in Caribbean countries and shaking hands through chain link fences with the locals? What a happy accident!