Prince Andrew BACK in the royal fold

[tatalan]

How do you feel about this development?

Roussette · Today 12:20
I agree Bread... nothing to see here, just move on.

And what is really really galling is the fact that records on Andrew, his travel arrangements, where he went, what he did, whilst Trade Envoy have been sealed for over 100 years. So he escapes scot free.

But his bad behaviour eventually got back to the Queen, who took the job away from her "favourite son". She showed a lack of judgment, taking so long to act on it when there was plenty of evidence.

However, Charles, who could well have been hurt by the "favourite son" title, is not going to treat him well now that he is in charge, I think. No uniform at the Queen's funeral; no parading at the Garter Day Procession. Etc...

These are the flashy things that Andrew loves, to him their loss is a serious consequence. And William, when is turn comes, is likely to be even more dismissive.

In 100 years it will be history, like the stuff that is now coming out about Edward and Wallis

Yes what a coincidence that the second in lines are all shady but luckily the ones ' chosen by God' to be King aren't shady or stupid or arrogant. What an amazing accident of birth! Or maybe the heirs are protected at all costs from their own stupidity and greed while the spares are expendable in some way. Harry was right in what he said but wrong because he wanted to be protected in the same way as the direct heirs. What should happen is that the direct heirs should be subject to more scrutiny. But that would risk the whole House of Cards tumbling down on all of them. The Late Queen was admired for poring through her red boxes every day. Little did we know that was so she could weed out any legislation that may have meant her family had to do anything it didnt want to do and instruct her lawyers to get exemptions rather than for the good of her subjects!

Angrycat2768 · Today 14:20
Yes what a coincidence that the second in lines are all shady but luckily the ones ' chosen by God' to be King aren't shady or stupid or arrogant. What an amazing accident of birth! Or maybe the heirs are protected at all costs from their own stupidity and greed while the spares are expendable in some way. Harry was right in what he said but wrong because he wanted to be protected in the same way as the direct heirs.

I don't think we need to bring God into it!
Poor Charles had a horrible boyhood at Gordonston - and when he had
escaped that he wasn't allowed to propose marriage to the woman he wanted - not a virgin y'know. I suppose that could be seen as protection....

I think I would say that the direct heirs are more scrutinised - can't get away with bad behaviour easily. Ann, however, seems to have managed to live her life as she chose, while still being a useful member of the Family. And Edward seems to be making himself useful too.

Nah - I still say Andrew and Harry are stupid. But I will agree that Andrew is also wicked

Yes, BadgerB, I agree up to a point. How it must have rankled to see all his family at the State Banquet for Korea leader, all ponced up with tiaras and sashes. And him at home watching telly or whatever. And how he will miss playing at the best golf clubs in the world, (who knows, he might still be able to go, but not US).

But, it's a small price to pay given, we don't know half of it and never will. He's a crook and will escape because of his title, because all records are held until 2135 or whatever. Talk about bringing the Monarchy into disrepute... he managed that all on his own.

Yes what a coincidence that the second in lines are all shady but luckily the ones ' chosen by God' to be King aren't shady or stupid or arrogant. What an amazing accident of birth!

History not your strong point? Charles’ younger sister Anne is the next oldest child (though fatally for her chances, a girl) but seems to have done alright for herself. Given Charles was 12 when Andrew was born it must have been fairly clear that no “spare” was needed - Andrew is just a much cosseted younger sibling.

George VI - generally highly regarded - was the second in line in his family, it was his older brother who was the disaster. And their father George V was also the second son, who became king after his older brother (whom today we might consider had special needs) died of typhoid. No particular scandal about any of Victoria’s children - her oldest son liked the ladies and a drink, but he was hardly the only one in the 1800s…. And Victoria was essentially an only child (she had a half sister from her mother’s first marriage but she was obviously not in the line of succession).

yes and thats a pretty significant difference for me.

Henry VIII was also the spare. Only taking the throne because older brother, Arthur, died. As were his daughters, Queens Mary and Elizabeth, acceding to the throne after the death of brother, Edward.

Looks like Prince Charmless is going to be sweating over Christmas and New Year:

Hundreds of court files from Ghislaine Maxwell libel case to be published (msn.com)

I should imagine the dozens of wealthy and influential industrialists and politicians who also enjoyed Mr Epstein's 'hospitality' will also be sweating. They however (to a man) have escaped any kind of investigation or retribution. Andrew however has lost everything (as he deserves to) and I can't help but feel he was targeted by the couple as a way of gaining entry into the monarchy and high society on both sides of the Atlantic, just as the influential politicians were. They were there to protect Epstein. Andrew was just an entitled, immoral pawn in a much bigger game, and it's still open to speculation that the influencers in his American circle didn't have a hand in his death. Definitely scope for a major conspiracy that is unlikely to be resolved.

I also think the movers and shakers in the SoHo house empire had something to do with introducing Meghan to Harry as an in to the highest echelons of British life. 🤔

It will be very interesting to see what comes out of that release.
There's probably a lot of powerful and influential people feeling a little nervous at the moment.

I agree with rosyglowcondition about Andrew though. I suspect he was a useful and well-connected idiot for them to gain legitimacy and more connections. I don't think it ever crossed his mind that he was a small pawn in something much bigger because the ego boost was too enjoyable.
You'd think given the machinery in the firm, someone would have put their hand on his shoulder at some point along the way and said "this REALLY isn't a good idea". Or maybe they did and he ignored it somehow.

At least some other people are mentioned this time ! Always found it odd that they weren't!
I knew about Clinton and trump but woody Allen was a ( not ) surprise , let's hope more major players are taken to account.

@LolaSmiles I'm sure someone did, but he knew better!

This is from the Independent:
During Maxwell’s trial, longtime Epstein pilot Larry Visoski testified that he recalled flying Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, and actor Kevin Spacey on the late paedophile’s private jet, nicknamed the Lolita Express.
Presidential candidate Robert F Kennedy Jr last week admitted flying on Epstein’s jet twice in the 1990s.

Wonder if they'll be published in full or heavily redacted?

Yes the Epstein scandal has been nicely swept under the American shag pile (it's a carpet) and Andrew the ludicrous fall guy along with a far more guilty party in Ghislane Maxwell, hung out to dry. I think it's barely heard about in America now.

I’m glad to see this has progressed. Like most people I’ve been wondering if the names would ever be released.

Sadly a lot of super powerful men were involved with Epstein so I won't hold my breath. Power can do a lot to shut down this whole thing.

I read that the 'names' have two weeks to appeal to the judge not to have their names released to the public.

If true, I am glad for him, the Duchess and their children. I wish he had countersued Virginia Giuffre but the 'firm' did not want him to do that for various reasons, including the late queen's platinum jubilee and the fact that it might drag on with accompanying publicity. However, others (whom we in the UK don't know), did and she backed down, saying she may have 'misremembered'.

The York family has other troubles.

(Readable via archive dot ph, or flight mode often works.)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/12/19/prince-andrew-invited-fraudster-smuggler-st-james-palace/

And the Daily Mail has the story freely available.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12883727/Prince-Andrew-invited-former-Goldman-Sachs-banker-accused-40million-fraud-Libyan-gun-smuggler-royal-residences.html

Honestly he's got the intelligence of an artichoke!!!

Well done 👏👏👏

I also think the movers and shakers in the SoHo house empire had something to do with introducing Meghan to Harry as an in to the highest echelons of British life

If anything like that happened, and if it did I think Harry and Meghan would be unwitting and innocent pawns, then right back near the beginning we also have the presence of another York family member and possible dupe, Eugenie.

The House of York is what happens when you keep dim and privileged people deprived of, but close to, serious wealth. They get curious. A bit avaricious. A bit entitled. They're easily flattered, and then manipulated.

"Ann, however, seems to have managed to live her life as she chose, while still being a useful member of the Family."
There was a lot of criticism of Anne when she was young.
She has obviously worked through that, and now the press seem to love her.