HRH Prince Archie Harrison 0f Sussex and HRH Princess Lilibet Diana of Sussex

[Price21210]

Will Sussex be their last names? How does that work?

Of course they could use Markle if they wanted to - in the UK you only need to make a Statutory Declaration, and presumably there is a similar process in the USA.

They currently have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor, as well as their titles. But, just as the RF adopted 'Windsor' in 1917 to repudiate their German connections, Harry and Meghan could choose to be Markle to repudiate the toxic RF. Or Ragland, given that they don't seem to get on well with the Markle side of her family.

No fervid imagination required.

Harry has said many times he loves his family and believes in the monarchy still, but doesn’t agree or like the way the institution is run and it’s collusion with media. I’m not sure what’s hard to understand about that. It’s like someone who leaves a church they were raised in but their family is still members of. You may not believe in the same things and think the church damages them and their relationship with you, but you don’t necessarily want to disown them or hate them.

He doesn't like the way it's run - meaning he doesn't like that he is treated as the spare instead of the heir. Yep that makes sense.

Well a lot more besides but that too. What is wrong with that? I think most parents would find it wrong, on a parenting forum, for one child to be treated more favourably and be given more just because they were born first.

I think most parents would find it wrong, on a parenting forum, for one child to be treated more favourably and be given more just because they were born first.

Exactly this @Whaeanui

On the step-parenting boards there are usually posters who are outraged that kids who live with a resident parent, and come to stay with the other parent every weekend that there is a full moon are not given their own bedrooms. I have read countless threads where stepmothers are berated for as much as expressing the wish that they want to spend mar tome with their own children. Children, it is argued, are to be treated equally.

Funny how the sentiments change when it's about Harry.

He doesn't like the way it's run - meaning he doesn't like that he is treated as the spare instead of the heir. Yep that makes sense

Rubbish! He doesn't want to be heir.

I think most parents would find it wrong, on a parenting forum, for one child to be treated more favourably and be given more just because they were born first
Most people aren't in an institution where one of a set of siblings will become monarch. It's more than a family structure, which is why it's probably unhealthy as family ties and job/duties are so closely linked.

The happy with monarchy but not liking how he's treated boils down to wanting to elevate himself so he gets all the trappings of being future King without being future King. It's a really silly position. Does his unfairness also extend to cousins who are also grandchildren of the late Queen Elizabeth who didn't get the same as him and William? Probably not.
Harry's stance seems to change depending on his mood. One minute he's supportive of monarchy, then he isn't, then him and Meghan misrepresented when their children would be eligible for certain titles, they chose not to use the birthright titles, but snap up prince/princess asap, want to be in, want to be out, want privacy, then selling out his family. It's all illogical.

I'd happily get rid of the monarchy in due course and they can all be private citizens.

I can't blame Meghan one bit for keeping her head down and getting on with life at the moment.

Most people aren't in an institution where one of a set of siblings will become monarch. It's more than a family structure, which is why it's probably unhealthy as family ties and job/duties are so closely linked.

Yes, agreed. I have no idea why Harry still believes in the monarchy but he’s institutionalised to think it really matters so despite what it’s done to the family side of things he still believes in it. This is where I would disagree with him, I don’t think there is any way to have a healthy family relationship within this institution.

Yes, agreed. I have no idea why Harry still believes in the monarchy but he’s institutionalised to think it really matters so despite what it’s done to the family side of things he still believes in it. This is where I would disagree with him, I don’t think there is any way to have a healthy family relationship within this institution
Agree with you on this.
When Harry and Meghan said they were leaving as senior royals, I thought good for them. I can't blame them because I'd not want to raise my children in a goldfish bowl. From what I've read it sounds like the priority of the monarchy is to preserve the firm/institution at whatever cost to the members within it.
The royal family strikes me as a gilded cage, which is why I find it illogical and hypocritical the way Harry and Meghan have carried on.

@LolaSmiles yes. I do think he at least is as I say institutionalised and spent his life walking around meeting thousands of royal fans who have reinforced the message he’s got that they matter to people and can make a difference. Maybe in the future when he’s been free from it longer, he’ll change his mind.

Whaeanui
I see what you mean. He probably hasn't spent much time with most of the population who don't show up to cast a 30 second glance at someone whose ancestors happened to be in the right place at the right time.

You're probably right that he's institutionalised, but on the other hand he seems very aware of the institution's flaws and very willing to talk about them, at the same time as moaning that it's not fair he doesn't get (insert whatever the latest it's not fair topic is here). He seems to want all the perks of being part of the monarchy without any of the downsides.

@LolaSmiles yes, and honestly I think that’s a human trait! I want to be part of my family too but I don’t want my narc mother abusing me so I have less to do with her. But nobody publicly harasses me about it because my family isn’t important to anyone else! While I also think the thinking is flawed from my perspective, I just don’t know what it’s likes to be born into something like that and try and navigate life and make decisions millions of people will have an opinion on. I feel empathy for all of them mostly, even if I critique their behaviour. Andrew not included.

I think the problem is that the firm and family are so intertwined.

I don't doubt he loves his family and wants to be part of the family, but I do struggle with the illogical and contradictory demands from the firm. In some ways I find it hard to believe that nobody has taken on some serious PR advisor role and said "look, you've stepped away, now do your thing and focus on your next steps, whining to the press, and being caught contradicting yourself isn't going to go down well".

Their foundation seems to have done some great stuff, but that's overlooked because there's so much crap and family drama and attention seeking going on.

I have empathy for him for the trauma of being raised in that sort of environment and the role of the press. I have limited patience for the endless courting of the press that's gone on since leaving, and wish they'd settle as private citizens, and focus on raising their children away from the shitshow instead of thrusting their dramas into the public eye.

But surely titles are part of the institution, not the family?

Princess Anne's children do not have titles, but are part of the family.

Beatrice and Eugenie's children will not have titles, but will have the family relationships.

Why opt for titles unless you want to be part of the institution?

It’s not just the monarchy that works that way, family businesses, family farms etc often are inherited by the first born.

I think that might've been the casse 50 years ago. But I think we are a far more enlightened society now that we wouldn't be rewarding first borns in such a blatant manner.

Agree. Also we should not be rewarding anyone just because they were born in a particular family.

However just glad Harry is not the firstborn. I will leave it there, but best of available options

It happens though 🤷🏻‍♀️ Particularly in farming.

'I think most parents would find it wrong, on a parenting forum, for one child to be treated more favourably and be given more just because they were born first.'

So what are we saying? That Harry, despite his incredibly privileged upbringing, his expensive schooling at an elite establishment, the role in the army he would never have had access to without his background, the covering up of misdemeanours which would have seen a person from a less privileged background sacked, the opportunities for travel etc, etc that he feels hard done by because he won't be king?

Has he really been treated any differently as a member of the family? William has a role to play. If Harry had stayed within the 'royal' bit of the family, he would have had the large apartment at Kensington Palace, the nice country house, the staff, the social occasions. But he decided it wasn't for him and left. So why feel hard done by? You make it sound as if William was living in a palace feasting on lobster while Harry slummed it in a garden shed, eating cat food out of a tin.

Lol slight exaggeration there! 🤣

Agree that in farming this has always been the case too. There was terrible trouble in my father’s family over this. And it was not the sons fighting!

So if Harry had been firstborn, what would he have done? Made Archie and Lilibet joint monarchs? Each with consort and families and so on and so on? The balcony would collapse!

Presumably he'll repudiate the title, as it will pass to Archie and not Lili?

You make it sound as if William was living in a palace feasting on lobster while Harry slummed it in a garden shed, eating cat food out of a tin. 😂😂 I will never get my head around how someone born into such huge wealth, status, privilege and opportunity and who now lives with the love of his life with two gorgeous children in a stunning home in one of America’s most expensive locations evokes such sympathy for his plight across the globe.

Funny thing is, even if there was a meritocracy within the royal family, prince harry would still not become the head of it. He has no qualifications that would show him as deserving to be head of an institution, he's not educated or accomplished enough apart from joining the army and even then, he never rose above the ranks within it. Plus his controversial remarks would make him a liability in the role of a diplomat/constitutional monarch.

Presumably so as M is such a huge feminist