Harry and Gabor

[laurwalsh]

My friend just sent me this. I adore Gabor mate and the work he does. His book 'in the realms of hungry ghosts' was life changing for me who had suffered serious addiction issues. But am I being too harsh to feel disappointed he's jumping on this band wagon of garbage. I'm sorry but Harry we're sick of listening to your trauma and no offence you've sung it to death, (and I don't even think it's that bad relative to how much he has gone on and on about it) and trauma aside you're a complete hypocrite with how you've treated you're family and the trauma you've put them through!!

I know I'm contributing to the distraction every time I say something positive about Harry here - but I do appreciate how he has shown a light in the dark corners of the Faustian pact between the 'royals' and the media .

What is this pact? Getting the media to publicise what they do? Everyone does that. Politicians (of all parties), businesses, charities, councils, schools, parents of children who don't agree with healthy eating...! Blimey, even Harry and Meghan use the press to publicise themselves.
Or do you mean family members leaking stories about other family members? What are these stories. Harry couldn't say. The only example he gave was Camilla meeting William. And we know it wasn't Camilla. It was her secretary's husband who leaked the story. And if stories were leaked to make them sound bad, what bad stories were there?
Or is it about manipulating the press? Because I think the press was used to help hode Garrys drink, drug use and poor behaviour. We do know that Harry lied to the palace so that they made what they thought were true denials about his behaviour. So really Harry just behaving badly to cover his other bad behaviour. Nothing surprising there.
I'm all for papers not being able to lie and intrude into private lives but press limitation has been brought up time and again and they just can't move forward with it because of how complex it is. Harry really doesn't have the nous to solve it.
Is he shining a light? Maybe once he could have. But now he's sold stories on the private and personal lives of his family and others, he's sort of put the stamp of approval on selling intrusive stories. He's crossed all the boundaries so I don't see how he's in a position to lecture anyone else.

@Starseeed

You make extremely valid intelligent insightful point !

I agree ,

I wouldn't have thought about Privelged people like your father in law, having unresolved trauma, before,

I would just think of someone like that and just think they have been fortunate, got lucky in lottery of life ect,

So definitely see get your point,

But also think most People are getting sick of hearing now about unfortunately Prince Harry and his spare book,

and I experienced a traumatic childhood background of children's homes, being separated from family members as a child ,
etc

The problem is H’s moral compass has been severely bent and now it is hard to take him seriously without thinking it’s another malicious dig at his family.

Harry isn't hard done by. Lots of us lose a parent early but don't expect a 16 bathroom mansion, 24 hour security paid for by the met, rubbish churning wife and endless sympathy whilst he plays polo and whines about how he dislikes England (except for titles) and his Afghanistan count. He doesn't have the first clue what the war was about.

He would do better to accept his mental illness and greed. He's supposed to have a young family to take care of. I don't feel sorry for him anymore than other people.

Because for me personal healing is exactly that, personal. And what Harry is doing is anything but. It's not something that should be validated as a way to heal from trauma. If I went out to all my local pubs and family friends and the local newspaper and blogged about it with my side and said everything that's my truth knowing my family can't retaliate and will be exploited I would be wrong. No matter what I e experienced that's not ok.

Absolutely disagree that you’d be wrong to do that. More people should publicly talk about family trauma as far as I’m concerned, then it might help break the culture of keeping up appearances over supporting victims and getting justice. Staying silent/private about trauma is how abusers in families continue to abuse. Shout it from the rooftops as far as I’m concerned.

I've been in therapy and my experience is that when you talk, all sorts of things come into your head and you just vomit it out. But it doesn't mean those thoughts are true or accurate. I used to say how I felt about things but I'd go away and think about what I'd said and realise that I'd twisted things; not expressed things correctly; felt sorry for myself so had been unfair to others; or basically just felt a bit pissed off that session and projected things that weren't true. It was good to speak out loud because it made my thoughts easier to examine. It was good to speak to someone I didn't know because I could be honest and not hold back. It was good to have time to think about what I'd said and correct myself.
When people speak in a public arena, they don't have these advantages. They can say what they like but it doesn't make it true. Their feelings may be true but it doesn't make their stated facts or their reporting on the behaviour of others true. They have no opportunity to correct or edit.
Harry can write his books, do documentaries, talk in interviews but they are clearly poor strategies to help him. The PR interviews he did to support his book showed that he doesn't seem any further along the route to dealing with the loss of his mother than he was at the start.

@MarshaMelrose

It's not just what is leaked - it is what is covered up
You are very exercised about Harry taking drugs
Are you aware of the other drugs issues re the 'royals'

Where can I watch the Gabor Mahe film? Thanks.

It would be overwhelming if everyone went through their personal tragedies all the time. I feel for people when things happen but there should be a way of attaining peace with it without inflicting it on all and sundry

Yes I was thinking very much along the same lines. He talks as though there is no filter and he’s talking to a therapist. He’s not careful about how things come across or how he is perceived. He talks as though the other person isn’t important , like they are just there to facilitate him. He’s too used to paying people to listen I think.

I can only think of one royal that would be stupid enough to write about their own drug taking when they were residing in another country on a visa. He really isn't very good at thinking things through and looking at the bigger picture is he?

My question is, what are the stories that have been actually leaked? I've given the one example he quoted which has been debunked. What are all the others?
What are all the stories that have been covered up? I know two. That Diana cooperated with Moreton, and that Harry was doing drugs. But when the palace denied those stories they believed the denials were true. They believed Diana and Harry weren't liars. We now know better. But where are the mass of bad stories that Harry says have been leaked about him to distract from others?

(I spoke about drugs because Harry used that example in his book.)

He doesn't need to, he'll always be bought out

I know this because I’ve worked through my own stuff: Good mental health is a privilege of those who have been brought up with reasonably emotionally attentive parents. In that sense, Harry isn’t at all privileged. He has the physical trappings of privilege but none of the emotional ones. In a world that is blind to emotions, of course he seems well off, but once your eyes are opened to the emotional world you’d see he’s very poor. It’s exactly because he’s physically rich that he’s had the means to delve into and bring to light his emotional poverty, and that’s hugely important for the emotional health of the rest of the world.

Emotional neglect - especially over a long period of time - is as damaging as overt abuse. Some therapists call it ‘death by a thousand paper cuts’ (Nicole Sachs). Another therapist (Pete Walker) says if emotional neglect was understood (he badges it ‘complex PTSD’ then the whole DSM (the American mental disorders diagnostics manual) would shrink to one diagnosis (paraphrasing - apologies can’t remember the exact quote but that’s the gist).

The thing is, people only tend to accept and are able to look at what they’ve been able to face in themselves.

You make extremely valid intelligent insightful point !

I agree ,

I wouldn't have thought about Privelged people like your father in law, having unresolved trauma, before,

@Goodread1 thank you but it’s actually Gabor Maté’s insight that helped me see that about people like my father in law and others:

You have no evidence for this. Harry has no evidence for this. No one has evidence . Harry (like Meghan) thinks if he says something (such as 'leaking and planting of stories') it makes it the truth.

He cites a conversation which camilla had with him and because it appeared in the public domain it was her 'planting' it. Yet it turns out her email aide told her husband, who then let it slip to a friend. The aide resigned. All out in the open and probably pretty typical of these so called leaks. With hundreds of staff this sort of thing is inevitable.

Again what proof? It doesn't even make sense.

I don’t know who this Gabor man is but don’t you think there’s a time in life when you acknowledge your family dynamics wasn’t great. You’re going to put the bad things behind you and move on. Make a conscious effort that your children will not suffer what you have. I think it’s called breaking the cycle. Is it healthy to keep looking back dissecting everything and pointing the finger? I cannot see H is at peace with himself - the therapy is making him ugly and angry.

It's not always possible to put it behind you because the dynamic is still most likely present. What is the dynamic is that your parents discuss how they will not hear you. They operate like a board of management not a family. Their combined vote cancels yours. They control the narrative this way, and the narrative is that you've behaved atrociously expecting to be heard. You are paranoid, sensitive and angry and your parents are perfect and victims of you, and if you cannot accept that then the blaming, shaming and rejecting of you will continue.

Good luck putting a dynamic like that behind you. All you can do is stop caring.

First stage is to stop dwelling on it all the time whilst telling everyone how happy you are. Nobody that angry about the world is a happy person. He can make as many silly faces as he likes but he leaks through in everything he does and says. I don't doubt he loves his wife and children but he sees everything through the prism of his mother's death. He must be exhausting to live with.

Keeping talking about and reliving the trauma doesn't actually sort it out. It's almost like a form of self-torture. There's a mid way between burying it and not talking about it and the constant reliving of it. And he hasn't found it.

Your portrayal of Harry's parents isn't what happened, though.

I said it's not always possible to put a dynamic behind you and gave the example of my family of origin. I know this isn't harrry's experience. But the point is, you can't be healed and self aware for other people. You can't do it for them.

He can at least try to do it for himself?

Some research after world war 2 showed holocaust survivors who talked about and dwelled on their experiences were still broken 20 years later. Those who had decided to just move in, make lives for themselves were most likely to be happily married with good lives.

Harry is stuck in the fist scenario.

I also know from personal observation that people who have suffered severe trauma and were not particularly intelligent, couldn't process the trauma or make use of the therapy. I suspect that's Harry too.

I agree, only he can do it for himself. But he's been in therapy now for 6 years. He either isn't doing the work or he has the world's worst therapist. He should be further along than this by now.

well said

I've never heard of this man before but my initial reaction was that they are both hoping it will be good PR for both of them. Whether it is or not remains to be seen.

I feel very sorry for their children. Two parents with such massive issues, no wider family to dilute living in that echo chamber of unmet needs, anger and self absorption. At least Harry had grandparents , cousins and other family members around .