Harry and Gabor

[laurwalsh]

My friend just sent me this. I adore Gabor mate and the work he does. His book 'in the realms of hungry ghosts' was life changing for me who had suffered serious addiction issues. But am I being too harsh to feel disappointed he's jumping on this band wagon of garbage. I'm sorry but Harry we're sick of listening to your trauma and no offence you've sung it to death, (and I don't even think it's that bad relative to how much he has gone on and on about it) and trauma aside you're a complete hypocrite with how you've treated you're family and the trauma you've put them through!!

Was thinking the exact same. Meghan and Harry are obsessed with hugs as the currency of love.

It may sound awful but I kind of understand why William got frustrated with him to the point of exasperation. Somebody whom he looked out for his whole life was effectively placed in a trance and forever lost to them, almost like a bereavement.
I don't condone breaking his necklace (cannot write that without smh at how ridiculous an admission that was) but therapy appears to be keeping him in this state of sleep rather than awakening him (which is what he believes it is doing).

For someone so concerned about his own MH he doesn’t give a shit about anyone else’s.

Yes it would be interesting to hear from any people who have been inspired by ‘seeing’ his behavioural transformation from a state of trauma to one of healthy balance through this ‘act of service’.

That’s not what I see and hear.

They bought into the idea that hugs are an indication of moral virtue.

If you hug you are kind and caring, so more hugs equals more caring. It's so shallow.

Yes kids need hugs, but they also need stable parents who are not trying to address their own issues through performative affection.

Meghan said something really weird in an interview recently (may have been The Cut? Or a podcast?) about how her kids would be so successful because of their wonderful parenting (paraphrasing) it rang real alarm bells: of parents using kids to demonstrate their own success. This is toxic however many hugs you get.

It was from the cut interview:

"'We’re creating multi-dimensional, interesting, kind, creative people,' she gushed. 'That’s who our kids are."

Her kids are all these amazing things she values because they are creating them.

What if they're not? What if they don't live up to that? Can that be allowed? It would challenge Meghan's incredible parenting, these kids have to be amazing... red flags all over the place... but they will be hugged.

Purpledalmation, you must have the patience of a saint, your DH sounds quite tough to live with. Having "the whole list" of symptoms is probably fairly rare. I think driving dangerously, especially with others in the car / on the road, would be a total dealbreaker for me.

When I say me, me, me, I don't mean he is selfish and self centred, rather all the other symptoms he has, plus the anxiety, cause him to focus on what's happening in his head and he sometimes forgets about the affect on other people. When you are struggling to concentrate and focus you have to block out others and concentrate on the 'me'

In my experience forgetting how our shortcomings affect the people we live with isn't particularly typical of ADHDers at all. I know a fair few people with ADHD (family members and through a self-help group) and most of us seem to be painfully aware (to the point of massive anxiety) how much of a burden our deficits can be on other people. ADHDers are generally thought to be empathetic and have good social skills (except for the quick temper, maybe), so your DH's lack of concern for others sounds more like selfishness than a symptom of ADHD to me.

If I have a bad day, I'll do anything to mask the disaster, appear 'normal' to my OH or friends and go the extra mile so they aren't impacted by my difficulties in some areas of life. I'm also much more likely to concentrate on and help other people rather than myself - it's such a great excuse to procrastinate and avoid sorting out my own mess. I'll bake you cake, proofread your thesis, listen to your relationship woes and dirve you home, but I'll have missed my own deadline, forgot to pay a bill and my kitchen is a tip. 😆

It's just so frustrating when ADHD is used as an excuse for dickish, self-centred behaviour, preferably by those that have diagnosed themselves with it after doing a 5-minute online questionaire because it's apparently the 'current thing' to have.

You're trying to do your best, @ChinoiserieNerd . You sound like a lovely person and a good friend. You're trying to lead a decent life in spite of the ADHD, and not let it have a negative impact on others.

Grandiose and delusional.

Those poor kids having to deliver to these expectations.

So ignorant of parenting and MH. Setting up a right little narcissistic family dynamic from the get-go.

I bet Kate is eye rolling at their ignorance from her knowledge with her early years project - this is base level stuff.

Thank you, @Maireas , that's such a nice thing to say! My DH is a tidy, organised type who really has his life together (always good to at least have one proper adult in the relationship!). Sometimes my level of chaos and disorganisation still leave him tearing his hair out, but we've learned to laugh about it and I do my best with medication and very detailed to-do lists. I bring other good things to the relationship but am totally aware that I'm quite difficult to live with in some respects and very grateful to have kind people in my life who are willing to overlook some of my worst qualities.

I genuinely don't mean to sound like an arse, but you're literally talking over and correcting people who have ADHD themselves.

I appreciate that you live with the condition due to your DH, and I recognise many of the symptoms you describe - but you're not inside his head, and you don't know what it's like to have ADHD yourself. Knowing someone with ADHD isn't anywhere near the same as having it yourself.

As@ChinoiserieNerd says, ADHD doesn't typically cause you to block out other people, ignore their needs, or centre yourself in anything. If you follow ADHD forums, you'll see lots of ADHDers agonising about the impact they have on others and the times they've screwed up.

We have to put up with so much shit being spoken about our condition, it's infuriating to hear more half-truths or inaccuracies so apologies if this sounds touchy.

Also as @ChinoiserieNerd says, it's perfectly possible to have ADHD and just be a thoughtless, selfish person completely unrelated to the ADHD.

Another possibility is that there is undiagnosed autism, which is characterised by rigid thinking and can appear to be far more thoughtless, a quite often presentation in autistic men in particular.

This casual diagnosis of Harry having ADHD is going to add more weight to the misconception that ADHD isn't ever diagnosed properly, and that it's a made-up condition that people claim to have to avoid facing up to their responsibilities. Being selfish and a victim are two more negative labels that I could really do without being attached to ADHD - which is my fear with it ADHD now being attributed to Harry.

Holy moly she said that?

You should read the whole interview, @Ndd135632 . It's a cracker.
She's being a good parent by taking them out of the UK, apparently. In the UK the children would not be able to go to school because they'd be hounded by the paps.
In spite of the fact that it doesn't happen to other royal children daily. Ever.

She also said something about the actress who may play her in the crown in the future should capture her natural playfulness - or something...

Honestly that interview revealed her grandiose weird way of thinking and talking about herself.

That and the Mariah Carey podcast when she bristled at some gentle piss taking before saying it was ok because she realised Mariah was really saying how amazing she was....

All so so revealing.

Harry obviously just takes it all at face value. She explains how amazing she is, he believes it. The GM interview shows he's a vacuum waiting to be filled by anyone who offers him hope.

Lord, this is so scary to read.
Meghan is a woman who thinks she is a deep thinker and humanist/feminist, when the reality is shes an internet influencer and C list actress. No depth and as superficial as they come. It didn't need south park to show this.

Harry is as paranoid as they come and lives to spout car bumper sticker cliches dressed to look like therapy.

I wonder if those kids will google the BRF when they are teens and ask their loopy parents, are we related to this King mom?

I was wondering the same. He talks about taking drugs or smoking marihuana like eating candy.

He advised his family to go on therapy. I wonder if he told them to try drugs too 😅

@FloorWipes it's interesting what you and others have said about GM and his ideas about trauma and ADHD. I listened to something recently where he was talking about chronic illness relating to childhood trauma. He gave an example of sleep training ...... of which I was guilty of with firstborn for a short time when feeling very low and having heard about Gina Ford! I felt bad anyway after and did things differently with other dc but it played on my mind a lot more after hearing his talk again recently.

Wow. That gave me the chills.

Not only do the kids have something ridiculous to live up to, their mother told the world that they weren't any of those things innately. She had to "create" them.

And that's the message narc parents give: you have no identity without me and if you do, it's a bad/faulty one, because I need(ed) to make you someone else. Someone better.

I recognise that message well, and its undertones. Grew up with it and have had years of therapy to try and get me to a point where I could believe that I may not be innately defect, where I don't have horrific nightmares about my "self" from attempting to do the first thing or where I simply see an empty hole where I should have an identity.

At least their kids will be able to afford therapy..only it seems their father has proven that money doesn't necessarily buy you good therapists.

I'm surprised to see Dr Gabor Mate described as a quack, it seems like this has been triggering for pp but to me he appears to be highly respected internationally, he spent his career working with those who have very serious drug addictions and also in end of life care, his family fled from the Nazis, his grandparents were killed in Auschwitz when he was a baby and so he's seen terrible trauma in his own family.

I think he's long been condemned by many of his peers for his different beliefs/theories that have been disproved by medical studies. None of that is to take away from the outstanding work he's done amongst addicts.

I'll be honest, I know nothing about him at all.

Sounds as if he's been through some terrible traumas in his life, and seen some awful things first-hand. I can't even imagine what that must have been like and I expect that's given him some unique insights.

He may well have done outstanding work in some fields, as @MarshaMelrose describes with addicts.

But none of that changes the fact he's chatting absolute shit about ADHD being caused by trauma, and the fact that it can be cured.

It does make me rage tbh, because we have enough nonsense to contend with, without some so-called professional wading in - and because he's esteemed in other fields, people will believe him about ADHD too.

I knew nothing about him before. From what I’ve read here and seen of his podcasts, he has a lot of knowledge and a very good understanding of what trauma and addiction can do to some people. However, isn’t he taking this to the extreme and finding trauma in pretty much every single human experience?

I am not in any way trained. But I am confused. From my lay person’s perspective, he seems in some circumstances to be leading rather than analysing. I’m thinking defining others and their behaviours with or without diagnoses, extrapolating this to produce outcomes, telling people who they are based on their experiences. I imagine he’s using personal bias and it’s probably a pretty easy trap to fall in if you don’t have the training… it also can be pretty easy to do when you do. I’ve had a particularly lousy therapist, who negated my experiences and defined me with some pretty harsh black and white thinking.

What I mean by all this is I can see why he’s widely respected. He speaks a lot of sense. It’s coming from a good place as he wants to help people. But if offering that help is coming from a personal need, he is trying to fill, it is not going to be without bias. And he doesn’t have the training or awareness to see this or correctly apply the knowledge he’s learned.

This interviews is dangerous and shouldn't have been aired. I don't know the 'Dr' but we do not diagnose people after having chatted with them for a few minutes. We used tests, scales, inventories, developmental histories, memory and attention tests etc. Harry should not be the face of any mental health institution as that interview was entirely about money. If he wants to support mental health then he needs to give a realistic indication of the process of being assessed and diagnosed. The unprofessionalism shown by the Dr was being belief. I'm also in shock that Harry discussed his regularly 'recreational' drug use as giving him the ability to overcome his trauma and cope. Drugs are a very maladaptive coping mechanism. The use of drugs to cope with daily psychological pain and his own life is very worrying. If he feels that he can't survive his current life without drugs then has an addiction. It's beyond belief that he is publicizing drug use as a helpful coping mechanism to a wide audience in a psychologically focused interview while claiming to work with several mental health organisations. His reflection is soly on how helpful the drugs were for him! Some people will listen to his advice and try drugs to relieve their pain. Except that of course they will have access to less safe, less regulated, cheaper and more addictive drugs. If anything goes wrong then they won't have instant access to rehabilitation centres, medical treatment or the ability to continue providing financially for a family due to trust funds and generous family. He has been incredibly irresponsible.

In my opinion the best thing that Harry could do would be to get far away from publicity and anyone using his stories for financial benefit. He needs a proper assessment from many different standpoints including biologically, psychologically etc... Being honest about his past drug use and seriously considering the possibility that it may have caused damage to his developing brain would be a good element to consider. He should not accept an armchair diagnosis of ADHD from a Dr who does not know him. He needs to be properly assessed and treated. Then he can return to his life from a position of strength and seriously consider the future he wants and the type of relationship he wants with his family. He clearly wants the best for Archie and Lili - I very much hope that that is not a father who finds that he can't handle his stressful life circumstances and spirals from recreational drug use to regular drug use. It has happened before. He should be focused on breaking the cycle of dysfunction for his children and drug use is a very real part of that cycle. Hopefully with help and education he can appreciate that he is not a perfect father and neither was his father or grandfather. Someone we have to play the cards we're dealt and try to make things better with help, love and understanding.

Yes. It’s not great that his children have two parents who see nothing wrong with using drugs to alleviate their suffering. Charles and William must be so worried.